Peptide Bioregulators: Decoding the Secrets of Soviet Bio-Technology to Regenerate Organs with Phil Micans. EP 011

Phil, thanks for coming on the Stephen McCain podcast Welcome.

Thank you. It's a great pleasure to be here and I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah, we met briefly on a like a mastermind call months ago and I said, oh, this is the guy I've been wanting to meet for a long time. He's the bio regulating guy, and you mentioned a book that I actually had on my desk at the time because I was kind of re referencing, you know, learning that stuff. So I I'm really excited to introduce my audience to bio regulators and you are the guy to do it. So thank you again for coming.

Well, I hope we can help people out there. And because I like telling jokes, I'll slip this one in. People say it's very educational when they hear me talk. Well, they don't say that. They say it taught them a lesson. But let's hope we can help some folks.

Absolutely. Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure you're a wealth of knowledge on the stuff. So, when it comes to bio regulators, what are these things, or what are we even talking about here? Like, let's just get down to the basics of what is a bio regulating peptide?

Sure. Well, the term has come to be used for peptides that have two qualities. The first quality is that they're very short chains. So I think the folks that they know that all peptides are made up of amino acids and it's when you've got two amino acids that have conjoined, that's what's technically called a dipeptide two, three and four amino acids. They are short chain amino acids. They can be one classification for bio regulators, but there is a separate condition which I'll come to. But just to say that when you start adding more and more and more amino acids, you know we can start changing the category. You might start calling them proteins, you might even start calling them hormones. So to take one of the longest examples, human growth hormone is a chain of amino acids made up of 191. That's enormous, that really is enormous, and we'll talk about how the changing that length of string, as it were, changes the way that you need to use these products. So the first thing to know is that peptide bio regulators are short chains two, three, four, okay. But they have a second quality that kind of needs to come from the research, and that is they act as gene switches. And you know, as my old mentor, Dr Wardin used to say there could be many, many more, we just don't know, and that's obviously true. But what we're going to talk about has principally been, well, Soviet research. In fact, it was a Soviet military secret for many years Now, of course is freely available in Russia and Russian speaking countries. So it includes the Ukraine, it includes Kazakhstan and, you know, Georgia and other countries in that region. So, yeah, gene switches and that is a little flippant thing to say but has enormous implications, yeah, I mean, I love the whole.

Like I grew up in the Cold War era, right, and so you know, I was a kid in the 80s and I remember the first time I went to Moscow and I stood in the Red Square because I was a, I got to go there for a competition Great. I remember thinking I'm not supposed to be here. It was like so cool, like Moscow is a very interesting city to me. It's got this incredible architecture Like it's. It's beautiful. I was there in 2019, believe it or not and just visiting and I I couldn't believe how unbelievable the city was, like it had just gotten better and better. But I went into like the equivalent of like a CVS or a Walgreens and I bought some visomitten, which is a I buy a regulator right Like it's, and I started using these drops and before I was in that, I was there for a week before I left. I looked at my screen a couple of days later and I thought, wait, what did Apple do? Did they upgrade my, the user interface? I was like this thing is like brand new and I thought, oh my God, these drops are working and so these things you can get over there in Russia. You know these tiny little bioregulating gene switches that can come in either a pill or you know different delivery mechanisms. Right and correct me if I'm if I'm wrong. They, they don't even need a a like a receptor. They pass right through the cell membrane, latch right onto the DNA that's right and help the DNA start coding proteins to rebuild that particular organ.

Because they're nano sized. They actually and that's another thing as well the oral ones. They pass through the stomach wall. They're not degradated by stomach acid because of their length. That's very, very short, and we I can do the steak story as well, which I sometimes do. At this point I'll do the steak story. So, basically, a lot of people know you want to put on muscle mass, you're a natural bodybuilder. One of the things you may do is you may eat lots of steak or salmon or something like that. So the question is if you're trying to get protein into you to build muscle and yet the steak you're eating, the salmon you're eating, is going, all the protein in it is going to be degradated, broken up in stomach acids. How on earth does it build muscle? Well, I think the answer to that is some of it is broken down into these short chains of amino acids which we now know not only pass through into blood, act directly, because of their nano size, onto DNA, inducing specific and inducing protein synthesis. So that, I think is is the answer to that. And people say, oh, it sounds intriguing but we don't really know, do we? Because we've only heard about it five minutes ago. Well, no, unfortunately, that's not true, because this was, this was work started 40 years ago and, as I say, during the Soviet era it was a secret. It was used by their troops, it was used by their cosmonauts, it was used by their Olympic teams. It's only since Perestroika that this stuff has now appeared on the market and, of course, for a long time it was all in Russian, and you know now I'm not saying all of it, but much of it is in English. So it's suddenly opening up and the people are becoming aware of what these things are and what they can do.

Yeah, and thank gosh because they're they're so powerful. I mean, they're just amazing. And the thing I love about bioregulating peptides is they make such, they make so much sense on like a simplistic level they're not this medication there that it makes sense that if you want to build muscle, you eat the muscle of an animal, right, like the. And if I wanted to potentially repair my liver, I might eat the liver of an animal or my heart. I want to improve my heart, I eat the heart of an animal. There is this thing in nature that, as these specific proteins that we share, very similar with animals, like a heart, is what 99% the same in terms of the protein structures for an animal and us, as those things break down, they break into down into small chemical signatures that turn on us repairing our own heart, right, and, and all you they've done is systematize these things so that you can take them in pills or organ system.

It's become more accurate and it's become more potent because they can be specific extracts. It goes right back to, say, the work of Western price. And there's today, there's the Western Price Institute, who showed back in the 20s, 30s or 40s that kind of time period that he studied these native tribes in different parts of the world and some of which, of course, don't exist anymore, and he was showing that because they were eating the whole animal. For one example, there was a one tribe who were eating the next. I think they may have been in Pakistan, I might maybe the Huns, as I think I might have got that wrong but they were eating the necks of animals and thus consuming the thyroid right, and he couldn't find any trace of thyroid issues in these people. And of course, in those early periods I mentioned 20s to 40s the key doctors then were using organ extracts I still use today, don't get me wrong. But what I think has developed since then is we've got more specific into knowing what is in these tissues and how they're acting, and I think it's beginning to make sense. And what we should say is these peptide byrheal is. They're in nature, they are in food groups, and what the Russians have shown with their research is quite amazing. They work in humans, they work in animals and got some very new news for you, which is only a few months old. University of Tel Aviv has been using these peptides in strawberries and they're discovering that the plants produce nearly 30% more strawberries on the same plant. So even yes, so that is a magic number. We'll come back to the number 30, because I'll get into that for you if you want me to. So they're used throughout nature. They're fundamental.

Yeah, I mean it's and it's fascinating to think that you can get it still in this pill delivery, because you know, a lot of times when people think about peptides they think, oh, I have to inject them. And you know, I have yet to talk about peptides on this podcast. I am going to get into it because I've been using them for 10 years and I just never thought they would get this popular. And I guess now people have crossed that line where they're willing to inject themselves with a needle and I think it's worth it. But these in particular, there's bioregulating ones. You can just orally take them.

It does set them apart from everything else. You're absolutely right, partly as we talked about earlier, about the length of this amino acid chain. You simply can't deliver a rather long string of amino acids, you know, through the mouth. There's a 50-50 chance it might have some effects sublingually, but really, in terms of a drug delivery, it has to be injected or possibly as a nasal spray. But the problem with both of those routes is that even if you put vitamin C into a vial or into a nasal spray, most of the governments around the world will say that's a drug because of the nature of the delivery. So the fact that these and, by the way, there are 21 available commercially, the fact that these are in pill form and they work and we can get into some of the aspects of what some of them are doing, makes them stand head and shoulders above most of them that are commercially available today.

Yeah, I think the implications for these, I think these things are going to be massive when they finally get their do you know, spotlight. Let me do it real quick, just to kind of cover the basics, because the naming conventions and the there's synthetic, there's naturals, naturals. I just want to cover those real quick. You know, in terms of what would be the difference, you know one, I assume. One is coming naturally from actual organ, organ meat and the other one is coming to be specific yeah. Yeah, and then the synthetic ones are actually like engineered to synthetically to reproduce the same thing, right?

Not so many of those available, eight or 10. I've got the number of down pat but there's 21 of the natural. Okay, but they mirrored. I mean you know it's thyroid or pineal or, unless you want me to get into the brand names because it's like learning another language, unfortunately there are so many crazy names. I normally stick to the gland or tissue names.

Yeah, let's stick to the gland or tissue until we've, you know, really like laid down some, some good fundamentals. But I think that for for most people, they probably should just start with the naturals anyways, unless they're experiencing some sort of emergence of something where they need a synthetic.

Exactly. Well, I can tell you that in the Russian clinics where they utilize these both as injections and as orals in the majority, of course, we're talking about more severe cases for people being treated. In those cases they tell me and again I would come back to if you have a medical problem, you might want to consider this. If you don't, and you're looking in a supportive, regenerative kind of way, I don't think you need to go down this, this route. But basically, in Russia, in a clinic, they would start you on a synthetic the class is known as cytogens that's a class of the synthetics, okay, and they would start you on that and they probably have you on that for a month maybe a bit longer in some cases, but that's typical and then, after that month, they would switch you to the naturals, which, as a class, are known as cytomaxes. And I've asked the obvious question Well, why do you do that? And the answer has been the synthetics appear to work faster. However, the naturals last longer in their efficacy. So I would also say that the majority of the human studies that have taken place and we can get into some of those if you want to have used the naturals Okay, and there is also an argument although this is a bit of a legalese that the naturals are food supplements because they are extracts of cow. And before anyone gets excited and says, oh my God, man, cow disease, or something like that, these apart from the fact that the carbs are especially bread and clean and checked and all the usual veterinarian in Denmark, by the way, for all the veterinarian processes the actual size of the molecule which is filtrated down is nano. That's so small for a prion to cause a problem, to cause a disease, it has to be Dalton sized and that's much, much larger. So they simply cannot get into the product and in 40 years of application there has never even been a serious side effect, never mind a prion. There's never even been a serious side effect.

That's a good thing to note. So what you're saying is, just by getting down to the actual bioregulating level, you are omitting yourself from having the ability to even carry certain things that might be harmful, right that's exactly it.

So, and also, when I make the statement, no serious side effects, a lot of people rear back and say, because I mean Professor Cavinson himself, who's the lead researcher in all this, right from the inception, back in the 80s, back in the early 80s, he reckons they'd been dosed 100 million times. So that's a lot. And of course they were given to, and literally it was given to their elite troops, their cosmonauts and Olympic teams and they're not going to endanger those kind of people, right? That's to be honest. And I think it's because and I should explain the word bioregulation, because it is rather extraordinary, but something that's been said to me recently it sounds like an adaptogen. So if anyone knows about adaptogens, I think, yes, it does follow in the same class. What am I talking about? Well, let's use the thymus as an example. So a lot of people out there are hypothyroid, maybe not medically so, but they are, and I'm not making that up. That was originally done by Dr Broder Barnes and today his mentor, dr Rick Wilkinson. Both American docs and they've estimated that between 50 to 60% of the adult population has a weak thyroid. Okay, so in other words, it could be hypothyroid too little. There are handfuls of people not many but there is hypothyroid, in other words, they've got too much going on in the thyroid gland and there are very big differences between these people. If you're hypothyroid, you could have poor metabolism, you might have cold hands and feet, your temperature control is not very good, you feel a bit tired, you don't sleep very well, blah, blah, blah. Right, yeah, if you look at hyperthyroid person, they're almost the opposite They've got too much energy, they're hyperactive, they're not sleeping very much, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, so these bioregulator peptides are turning on, activating or silencing specific genes. I don't think even Professor Khavinson knows how they know what to do, right. But here's the weird thing they literally bioregulate between a parameter. So if you're going back to the thyroid, just as the example, if you're a bit sluggish, they seem to activate the genes responsible for our thyroid glands to endogenously produce, naturally produce more thyroid, and of course that means in the right area, because there are four different known thyroid hormones. But if you're hyperthyroid, it might silence the gene to bring you down within this parameter. Okay, and I think, although nobody fully understands how they know which way to go, I think that's the reason for the safety, because if you were being treated for that problem and let's say you were taking a thyroid hormone every day. Clearly you have to be monitored, because you don't know what levels of thyroid hormones you have in your blood because you're throwing those tablets in every single day. Okay, so you don't want to go too crazy or whatever you want to get into that, but these peptides appear to do it naturally. Okay, and there is one caveat of course you need the gland. It may sound silly, but there are people who've had their thyroids removed. So in a woman, for example, if she took the testes peptide, guess what? It doesn't do anything because she hasn't got any testes. And in a man, an ovary peptide won't do anything for them either. So there's not many of the prostrate as well, but there's not many of those. We do share a lot of other things in common, yeah.

Yeah, it's fascinating. They really they do bring the body back into homeostasis. I mean, I have a whole story with my fiance. They were diagnosed with Graves disease. You know, like her thyroid hyperthyroid, were out of control and I had worked with the doctor. I said we're going to use peptides. I was like you know, and I worked with this endocrinologist and I've told this story before, but we fixed it and brought the thyroid and everything back into homeostasis and he couldn't believe it because he just wasn't schooled in these things. And they really are. I just feel like it's let me ask you this, because I get so excited I don't even know what to ask but, like, when you eat certain, like we talk about, if you eat nose to tail, you are in fact getting some of these peptides right, like it's, you're already getting some of you if you eat like this and all you're doing is saying, okay, let's take a little bit more of a structured approach and let's go after. How would someone go about this? Like, maybe go after the lowest hanging fruit first?

Yes, I mean just quickly to go back on the food side of the equation, because there is something that fascinates me in that I've got a. I did warn you at the start of this, steve, I'm a record tarot, like telly stories, so I love it. I love it Back in 1981, I took my first degree in London and it was it was called then food and I'll use the British expression and vitamin technology, and I think today we call it nutrition. But the teacher on this specific day in the classroom put up on the overhead projector who wasn't sorry, folks over no PowerPoint then a pie chart and he said this is typically what you find in food. Okay, and it was X percentage of vitamins, X percentage of minerals, x percentage of oils I prefer to use the word oils and fats to save a lot of confusion but most of it was fiber. I think, if I remember rightly, up 55% or so was fiber. Now, in 1981, nobody was thinking a great deal about fiber and the thought I had in my head on that day in 1981 was well, either fibers very important, because I believe nature wastes nothing and we, you know everything, use everything, it's all energy one way or another or they've missed something. So fast forward to my first meeting with Professor Khavinson, which I think was in 2009 or 10, where I heard him lecture in Istanbul and he spoke about how these short chain peptides in foods act as gene switches. For me, it was a light bulb moment. It was an epiphany, because it took me back to that classroom where I asked the question have they missed something? And I think the answer is yes, they. At that time, they missed the peptides in food. Hey, listen, there's going to be a lot else. I'm I'm convinced whether it's light, electric magnetism. You know, it's a matrix of things, isn't it? Yeah, I think it's a lot of Russian's to produce this book, which is called peptides in the epigenetic control of aging. This is kind of serious.

I want to get that one. Is that because I have? I have the? Yeah, I need to get that for sure. Yeah.

That's a sort of scientifically dive into things, but for me, I think these peptides acting as gene switches, individualized gene switches explains epigenetics. Right, yes, you have to have the raw materials to you know, to build the house, but you also have to have the manager, the blueprints. So if you think of the genes as sending the instructions, but the materials have to be available to still build the house, right, it's no good having the blueprints and the managers if the bloody building materials haven't turned up. I think it's the same in the body that you still have to have both sides of this coin. And so I think that's a really, really fundamental point for these peptides.

Yeah, and you're using the innate intelligence of the body as a healing mechanism. I mean, we a lot of times in medicine it just seems like they, you know, you go against the innate intelligence and you just let's cut it out. You know, let's cut the thyroid out. It's producing too much thyroid, you know, and it's absurd. You know, and I just feel this, this field of research in these bio regulators are so elegant and the like it. I just can't believe it's not even respected, more and more known in the US here, like it's kind of still sort of like oh, is that Khavinson research? You know, legit, I mean, it is legit, right, why do people have such a problem with Russian?

like science, that's a generational problem. I was going to say my first visit to Russia I can't remember where it was, in the 2000s anyway and I had to give a lecture and they asked me to say a few words and I was absolutely genuine when I stood up and I said I've never been here before. I said, and I have to admit to you, I came here with a certain amount of trepidation and the only thing I really knew about Russia was it was a cold country and as I was in St Petersburg in February, it was cold, it was minus 25 degrees.

Yeah.

Never been so cold. But there we are. And I said to them. I said you know, and I've come here and I can tell you, I've confirmed the fact that this is a cold country, but I'm so delighted to find it full of so many warm people, you know that, not only smart people, but genuinely nice people. And it reminds me of someone very famous who I've forgotten, who made the quote, when they said and everybody, you know, okay, which country you come from, you can make this quote and you can say I'm proud of my country, I'm just ashamed of my government. So, it's not for people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. As somebody who's traveled to, you know Russia many times and I've had some of my best friends were from the Russian Olympic team and you know Olympic teams and fantastic people, great hearts, I mean just straight up, and they've got one advantage over the West at the moment, I would say, and that is they still favor science, engineering, what I would call proper subjects, okay, and they don't kind of favor celebrity.

You know what I mean and all that stuff that you know. They're more practical than we are and, although I'm not saying it's 100% true, I think there is less politics involved in their science than we have in the West. Yeah, so, and I like that, because maybe we're actually looking at the results of whatever it is through the eyes of science and results and not through people's opinions and whatever else things they want to get involved. So I think that's generally true. I'm not saying it's 100% true, but generally true. But here's the good news, right, when I get people saying, yeah, yeah, it looks fascinating, it looks great, and we've seen the publications and some of this work was replicated by the National Institute of Aging in America, but we're not convinced. Well, here's the good news. There is an American doctor. His name is Bill Lawrence, he lives in Atlanta and for about four years now he has been. He's had 120 people most of which are actually medical doctors, strangely enough in a trial utilizing these peptides under the original Russian protocols, and he's now after three years. He's published the results and he actually came and spoke at our meeting in England last year which we call the Profound Health Summit, and if people are interested in videos they can go there and find out. And we are going to invite him back for the next one, which is going to be May next year, and he's got something really interesting. He's going to talk about organ regeneration Nice. But what can I say about what he's discovered in these 120 people? Okay, two things. He was looking for very much which we could say the Russians weren't, because most of the Russian studies were done in the night. Human studies were done in the 90s and early 2000s and they monitored for a lot of different things. But Bill because his patients were healthy, there was nobody there that was diseased, just aging, just disorders of aging on their way to disease, but not the disease in the current sense. He monitored two things very closely, not the only things, but the two I'm going to mention. One is telomere length and the other one is DNA methylation, which is the so-called Horvath clock, and we can get into those things. What's the good news? The good news is every single person extended their telomeres and every single person improved their DNA methylation and those in the night. That's huge. That's huge. It was hard to improve DNA methylation. Even Stephen Horvath up until a few years ago was saying I don't think there's anything to improve. Yeah, it's profound On average. I don't like averages, but on average in telomeres the average patient improved their telie age, as it's called a biological age of your length, through your telomeres. In other words, improved the length of telomeres by 4.69 years if memory serves. On average the best person was 9 years. Okay, and something similar in DNA methylation where they got numbers of between three and five years. But those numbers actually speak greater volumes because Stephen Horvath produced a chart showing what it meant if you were biologically older, internally in your epigenetic age, or biologically younger. And so, for example, if you're five years older in your DNA methylation age, then your chronological age you're at 100% greater risk of mortality yeah, okay, but if you're five years younger unfortunately it's not the same number, but it's about 60 to 70% less risk of mortality yeah, pretty significant.

Yeah, the numbers blow up depending on, with probably a few years difference in terms of like. Like, aging does not help your mortality, right? You know? So you don't want to be, you know. It's very interesting that what you're talking about in this guide, bill Lawrence, and I will include all this stuff in the show notes. Basically it's StephenMcCain.com backslash bioregulators, it's B-I-O-R-E-G-U-L-A-T-O-R-S and let's talk about okay, someone's listening to this and they're like I'm in. I really I want to be a part of this. I want to start doing it. Where do they start? I mean my? Correct me if I'm wrong. Let me just see if it. How good of a student I've been of this Lowest hanging fruit. Whatever organ systems you have right now, like for me, like I have cardiovascular in my genetic lineage, so the blood vessel ones, I think is always a really good thing. That's also kind of an operating system upgrade, because if you improve blood flow, you improve everywhere, right?

That's right. No, these are all good things, stephen. I mean, you know, if you're the kind of guy who's really deeply into this, the number one do it is go and have tests and find out. Right, that's obvious, right, you can. But, of course, where do you start and where do you end, right? I mean, who's the guy that's speaking at Rad this year, who spent millions and millions of dollars on himself?

I remember saying that oh yeah, Brian Johnson.

Thank you, thank you, you know not many people in that position, right, because everything in life comes down to cost and convenience, right?

Yeah.

I'm sure we'd all like to drive a Ferrari, but it's not. You know, cost and convenience comes down to anyway.

Yeah, I met him, by the way, he's a nice guy. He's a really nice guy. I'll probably have him on the podcast at some point, but he's fascinating. I met him in person and just really, really interesting. And you know, I like what he's doing. You know, I mean I don't agree with every single thing when I look at his framework. I've gone through it, but it doesn't matter if I agree with everything. No one is ever going to agree with everything you know period. No one's going to agree with what I do, no one's going to agree with whatever. So you know, just a trouble with medicine.

Medicine has created an atmosphere of if this, do that, if that, do this. Our high cholesterol statin, our depression, prozac? Life's not like that. And the thing about anti-aging medicine is we are highly individualized, and thus the approach to anti-aging has to be too, and the thing that works for me may do nothing for you, steven, and vice versa. Right, so, and of course that makes it more complicated, it does create some issues, but in the long run, you know, people have often said oh it's, you know, it's a bit costly to do all these things, and blah, blah, blah. And I? My answer to that is well, if you think health is expensive, try disease. Yeah, because you know, if somebody gets a diagnosis of cancer, suddenly they're remortgaging the house and doing everything they can. Right. Yeah, that's not what you want to be, obviously, yeah. So we need a new approach. You know you've probably heard this before the ancient Chinese doctors used to get paid when people were healthy, whereas as soon as they got a problem, they stopped paying the doctor. So it was in their interest to get them healthy again.

Yeah, so interesting approach. Yeah, that's, that's so. It's hilarious, you know, and that's actually how it should be. Oh, funny, interesting.

So you know, coming back to your, you know you mentioned about eating from top to tail. Yes, absolutely, and our ancestors not that long ago, probably not even 100 years ago, wouldn't waste anything. And if you look in England, if we look at old menus from the Victorian and Edwardian times, there were recipes for cooking testicles and the you know, the innards, the guts, and also, and you know, people would obviously eat the black meat of a chicken as well as the white meat of a chicken and then stew the bones for soups and everything was consumed and I think there was a lot of protection in that which we now we've become so fussy. Oh, I don't want black chicken meat. Oh no, no, no. You know we've become so fussy about and, and, and also think that these different peptides, which are not only in these different animal tissues, but in different plants as well, also explains why we, as humans, have to eat a plethora of different foods. Yeah, it's not as if we can just eat Brussels sprouts.

You know we need to eat other things, exactly, yeah, I so like. This is great, by the way, in terms of like a protocol and the degree of intensity for a protocol, like if someone is like for me, like I have to wear these damn glasses at the lowest prescription, but it bothers me that I have to wear anything. And so like for me, like I have the visor mitt and eye drops, but I don't think by the time they get all the way to the US of a and they haven't been refrigerated, they lose their potency because they're not not getting the same punch I did in Moscow.

So some customs are radiating things by bringing back coming off the you know the container. Sometimes they get x-rayed. That could be appropriate.

I didn't know that. So, no, it's a good point. So, like for me, in order to maybe improve my eyesight and I imagine blood flow to the eyesight. We already talked about the fact that you know, with the cardiovascular history in my, in my, you know, disease in my, in my family, I would imagine the, the bio regulating peptide for the blood vessel and then the eyes. Those two would probably be. How would you recommend attacking that and what sort of a dosing protocol?

Yeah, absolutely so. Definitely the eye peptide, which is actually retina, the retina peptide, okay, and also definitely the blood vessel peptide. Now, I did an interview with Karenson a few years ago and I asked him which combinations of peptides are synergistic and we came up with various issues, problems and three peptides. Okay, the one that was in every single category was blood vessel. Yeah, and when you think about it, it's obvious, because if you're improving blood flow, you're delivering more nutrition, you're removing more toxins, exactly so, definitely the blood flow. And, as you said, there's some cardiovascular. There is a heart peptide, by the way, okay, but I think the retina and the and the blood vessel for eyesight issues. There is another product I can mention which isn't the peptide by, or two other products I could mention which isn't the peptide by. We'll come back to that in a sec. The other one that has a lot of magic is the pineal peptide. Yeah, and we could go off for a whole session on the pineal gland by itself, right in the center of the brain. But, I think most people know. It produces melatonin amongst other things, and melatonin, of course, is the core to getting all our hormones on. If the melatonin is gets into our blood during darkness and it's not there during light, so in other words, it's telling the rest of our endocrine system when it's daytime, when it's night, so you get a nice circadian rhythm. And we all know if we fly a lot on jets or if we do shift work how screwed up we can get in a pretty short period of time. So by adjusting the pineal as you were, you get the circadian rhythms right. If you're on a nice circadian rhythm, your hormonal cyclicity is right, because hormones are coming out at different times of the day. They're not all coming out all the time. Most of them come out first thing in the morning, like growth hormone, for example, is a big boost. It's kind of the impetus to say get up and get on with the day. Right, yeah. But there are other pulse site, smaller pulse site productions of various hormones, maybe not as much as well. So the pineal gland was put to me by a friend of mine and a great melatonin expert, an Italian gentleman by the name of Dr Walter Pierpori, and Walter said this to me many years ago and it stuck in my mind. He said think of the pineal gland as the conductor of the endocrine orchestra. He said if we didn't have a conductor, what would the orchestra do? It would make noise, but when you have a conductor, it makes music. So the pineal peptide is having a direct action upon the pineal. I will also go out on a limb here and say that we believe it is also possibly the principal agent in elongating telomeres. Yeah, okay, so you're getting this double whammy. You're getting these double whammy. So how will it help your eyes? Well, if for any reason, your circadian rhythms are out of sync, ergo your hormonal psychocity is, and that would also mean a lessening of immune system. You know it can get that adjusted. So those, I think, would be the three core elements. Quickly, because I said there were two other things I wanted to mention. Yeah, please. Is a peptide, it's a dipeptide, it's called carnosine Carnosine I knew you were going to say that Grand is can see, and although it depends on what the problem is in your eye, there are scientific studies showing it reverses cataract Eye drops. Guess what Russian, but they come out of the Helmholtz Scientist and Moscow, who gave the world cataract surgery, so anyway, so that's something you might want to look at. And another personal favor of mine is a herbal extract called vimposatin, or vimposatin if you prefer to call it. That comes from the periwinkle plant and it is a brilliant vasodilator and it's been proven to be of great benefit in some of the smallest arteries and capillaries which are found in the eyes and the ears. Nice, so, and it's also pretty good Neutropic as well. So if you want to sort of improve memory, so that is one of my personal favorite supplements.

Yeah, the Vimpotato. Vimpotato, what is it? Vinposatin?

or Vinpocetine.

Yeah, that one is I've seen it around a million times for years on like a kind of a as a satellite nootropic thing. I didn't realize it has a vial of vasodilating properties that I will definitely look into. The can see eye drops. I've used those with the visometin you know eye drops for years and I've had success with that. Those things can burn those carnosine drops right.

Depends where you get them from. Okay, that would be a whole another thing to go down. Look at the pH. If the pH is around 6.5, then you have about a one in five chances. If the pH is over 6.7, you have about one in a thousand chance. Can see is actually 6.7 to 6.9. Interesting, just as we're into eyesight, I should tell you the story of Professor Svetlana Trophimova, who runs the Tree of Life Clinic in St Petersburg and she is an eye expert, and of all the peptide stories, if I can call it that, it is possibly the strongest one. Now you've got the public book there in front of you there, stephen, the peptide bioregulator revolution. There is another book written by the same doctor called the Eye Sight Saviors, and there's a chapter on each thing, but there's one chapter on this particular peptide. So what she does in her clinic is she uses the retina peptide firstly as an injectable and it's injected into the orbit of the eye. So that's the sunken bit. If you think of a skull, that's the sunken bit, but it is not injected into the eye. What they do is they do like pinprick, like subcutaneously into the skin around the eye, like that, and they would do that every day for 10 days and then they will send the patient home with the boxes of the peptides so pretty much the three I just told you and they would ask them to take two capsules every day. Now I'll get into dosing at the end, because not everybody needs to do that. But what you see in those books which come from her publications are the before and after computerized topological scans of their retina, and everybody can work it out because it's very simple the black areas is no eyesight, the red areas is very poor eyesight, the yellow areas is OK eyesight, the green areas is 2020. And you will see, that was one extreme case of a lady, quite an elderly lady, who was 90, 90 percent blind in her one eye. Now most people would tell you, when you're that far gone on anything, the chances of making any substantive improvements are very, very low. After a year or so they took her back to 30 percent blind in that eye. Now that may not sound like a cure, if that's the word we can dare to use, but it's made such a difference in her life. It now means that she can see the grandchildren, she can see movement, she can see where the furniture is around the accident, etc. But with other patients who are perhaps 10, 15, 20 percent blind in the eye they're not so and also anybody out there who's an eye doctor. There's one particular eye problem. It's called retinitis pigmentosa. It's almost invariably genetic. There is no clinic in the world that we have known or heard of who can do anything about it, except the Tree of Life Clinic.

Wow, yeah, I have seen that book on your on the website and I've almost bought it like so many times and now you've just convinced me. I'm just going to load up on these things. But just phenomenal, the implications of the simple like yeah, people aren't going to be like going home and injecting. You know, I'm actually gotten so damn good with needles I could, I'm comfortable doing things that were unthinkable, you know, years ago for myself. But the fact that you could take some, some, some pills and potentially regenerate some of this stuff and put some eye drops in your eyes is, I mean, look at, that's, that's fountain of youth type stuff. I mean that that's that kind of. That's the whole. You know, that's the game. That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to outsmart the. You know we're not trying to outsmart.

Bill Lawrence is kind of on a crusade because he meets a lot of American doctors and of course a lot of them are not going to mention their names. They're good people, but you know they're very proficient in what I call the American peptides, you know BCP 157 or those sorts of things, and he knows that they want everything injected because of efficacy, partly because it means you have to go into the doctor's office. Yeah, exactly, it shouldn't be so facetious. Good reason to see health professionals. Folks go and see them and so you know. But as Bill's been saying, you don't need to with the peptide bioregulators because they work taken orally and here's the proof. So that's what he's. His next thing, now that he's working on a paper, is to show organ regeneration. So, and as I say, we hope in England next year he's going to come over and lecture on that yeah, fantastic yeah, because it makes me. There's a lot here. There's a lot here.

Yeah, there really is, and it's exciting. I mean, let me ask you this the injectable epitalon is basically the pineal gland bioregulator, right, and since that pineal peptide used primarily by injection.

however, there is a sublingual version of it, so spray.

Okay, yeah, I've been using the epitalon with the thymaline combo for I'll do once a year or twice a year, depending on like the dosage injected. I've been doing that for a couple of years and it does reset your circadian rhythm and if you think about it like that's your master clock, everything, that's what kind of brings all allows every organ system to reconnect and say we're all in the same time frame here. Right, we're all in the same time frame. And sleep improves skin quality. There's, you just feel, sense of well being. It's an amazing protocol.

Immunity yes, stronger immunity. And again, with the thymalin, which folks out there don't know. We're talking about thymus, thymus peptide and very, very recent studies fairly recent studies anyway showing that it will improve diabetic leg ulcers and similar, oh really. So if you're up there with diabetic ulcers, take a look at thymoline.

Wow. So if someone really wanted to dive into all of this stuff, where can they go? Where do you recommend they go to like learn this stuff? I mean, you obviously showed some books and do you have articles on your website. Is there something they could you know?

Yeah, thanks, tim. Well, anyone can go to antiaging-systems.com. Listen, we got thousands of stuff on there. We were talking earlier. We've been building that for ever, since 1996. We've got lots of, but we've got a pretty good index. So if you go in or you type in peptide, bioregulator, it will show you the list and stuff like that and you will see us articles with references. There will be some podcasts, there will be some videos on there as well, which are on YouTube, of course. And but if you want a sort of lighter approach, have a look at our magazine which is called aging-matterscom, and not every single magazine goes into peptides, but there are several magazines where we've interviewed Cavinson, we've interviewed Bill, we, you know, work with other people who are using them, so there's quite a bit there. Or if you're on the opposite end of the scale and you want to go into a deep dive, then I have to recommend you go to cavernsoninfo, which is Professor Cavinson's site, where you know the medical publications are listed.

Fantastic. I will definitely put links to everything you just mentioned in there. And I've read a ton of your articles over the last 10 years and and like I told you before we were talking, it's been almost like this like this, like dirty little, like private area, like underground medicine that no one knew about for so long and I'm like how can no one knows about this? I'm like this stuff is gold.

You know, I can sometimes say to my team I think we should be on the dark web. Actually.

But I mean the stuff is so well written, the information and everything that's on those you know, like in that suite of sites that you guys kind of all work together the international anti aging systems and profound health and all that like the. There's some amazing products on there as well.

We've tried very hard. You know I've been doing it for over 30 years. Right from the inception we were interested in preventative and regenerative medicine and we've tried very hard to work with very serious people. You know you'll see the names on our websites. You'll even have testimonials and well known doctors saying I like working with IS, which is very nice where it makes me very humble. You know, people that I started out as heroes have become friends. So I feel very, very honored in that position. But everything is referenced. We tell you who said it, we tell you where it came from. We give you the PubMed where it is available. We're not making anything up and even though there are several stories on our website, this being one of them, where a lot of people say I find that very hard to believe, especially when they hear that the information is decades old, not five minutes ago. But then one of my little jokes is because there are a million medical publications every year. There are 50 million online, and I'm just talking about medical publications, not general health and fitness. Okay, who's reading all that? So my little joke is when people say oh, I can't believe it or it sounds too good to be true, and I say it's published and they go it can't be. I say, well, you know, if you want to keep something a secret, publish it.

Yeah, I mean, I just am so baffled that this stuff is still relegated to some sort of like yeah, it's, you know, not real medicine type thing, and it's like I get it because it kind of flies in the face of traditional medicine. It's like it's like the body using its own innate intelligence to fix its own self in a way that's built upon nature, you know.

I think you know what the problem is, stephen, but for folks out there who may not, medicine has been arranged I'm going to be very outspoken into a kind of cartel. If you go back to how allopathic medicine started with John D Rockefeller back in the 20s and 30s fantastic book to read by one of my heroes, edward G Griffin, called World Without Cancer, we'll explain that how it came about. And you know and since then doctors have been trained in this closed school about it's basically how to sell their products. And if you come along with a product as the great Dr Belinsky in America one of the very, very, very few people who has ever got a drug approved by the FDA, who isn't a big pharmaceutical company you find out that you need so much money and resources I mean, it's over a billion dollars now and not many people have that kind of money to invest. And the other problem is and this is the thing that comes up if you go to a big pharmaceutical company, let's say you've got the cure for cancer right, and you go along and say look at this. And they'll go wow, that's fantastic. But the first question will be can we patent it? And if it's a natural molecule, it's very, very difficult to get a controlling patent, and you're not going to spend a billion dollars to get that approved and it could still take 10, even more years to them. Find that everybody can sell it because you didn't get a patent, yeah, and so lots of things get written off, especially natural molecules, and so they never get in front of the doctors who are working in orthodox medicine, as I like to call it.

Yeah, now it's a great point. I mean, basically medicine is politics. I mean that's what it's become.

It is. In fact I go even further Now. I'm getting to a certain age, I'm getting a bit bolder, I suppose, and I say the trouble with medicine is it's sick.

Yeah, I like that. I've got a lot of good nuggets I'm probably going to be using from you for the rest of the year. But you know, I mean like my recommendation, I'm just going to throw something out there, like if you're listening to this podcast and take the lowest hanging fruit that you've got, pick something. Let's say you can't even think of anything. Take a pineal gland, take a thymus bioregulator and add the blood flow, the blood vessels. Yeah, take those three and do a protocol and maybe you could tell us like the best protocol and start with that and see if you do not have a circadian rhythm reset, if you do not feel better in some regard, and if you do, just build off that protocol Now start attacking or going after some things, maybe where you have weaknesses that you feel like you can regenerate right.

No, you're right, Steve. If you know your weaknesses, if you know that you have weak adrenal glands, as an example, or a poor thyroid, then bang, you've got a target to go for right. If you don't, and you're not doing testing that shows anything, the only other way to do it is look at your family history. What a mum and dad suffer, with grandparents, whatever, or brother and sister's even. You know. Of course, a lot of families have a specific problem, not all families, of course, but you can look at a family and say they get a lot of cancer, they get a lot of heart disease, they get a lot of diabetes. There's a general rule that tends to happen, so that's another way of coming at it. The three you've just said pineal thymus, blood vessel very good choice and one of the and that's the three. I go on regularly. Oh nice, and I'll tell you about those in just a second. And why do I say that? Because some of the actual clinical trials, the big human clinical trials that were done in the Soviet Union, are so massive and so unbelievable that most pharmaceutical companies would fall over. The biggest one they ever did was with the workers in Gazprom, which is Russia's oil and gas industry and this is in Siberia. It's pretty tough environment, right, even living in. It's not an office worker in New York, okay. So that's pretty tough and wait for it. They studied just over 11,000 people and they've monitored them over although I have to admit the numbers went down with the years, but I'll get into that Over 12 years. And they put 3000 of those 11,000 people on multivitamins as a placebo, so people didn't know if they were getting the peptides or the vitamins. So about 8000 people on the peptides, about 3000 people on the vitamins. These people started at the age of sort of like 40 to 60. Of course, some of these folks had been well retired when they were following up with them 12 years later, and I want to point out that in that part of Russia the average longevity of people is not as good. Okay, it's not what it is in the West. Okay, so long story short. What happened? What happened was that at the end of the study period, the people in the peptide group had one third of the morbidity of those in the vitamin group. In other words, they suffered from two thirds less Wow Disease. And that's a big number. That's huge. But beyond that, believe it or not I mean keep coming back to this number of 30% and I'll get into that if you want me to it seems to be a biological cell reserve, okay. They also, the people in the peptide group, had one third of the mortality. In other words, they were two thirds less likely to die. Okay, so that's a big number, isn't it? And the three that stood out on regular use were the three you've already mentioned pineal thymus, blood vessel, that's not to say, in other trials they didn't use other peptides and other groups of people they didn't use it. There was another study in tractor workers in a city called Kazan, which is central Russia. There was 3,000 people in that study Again, big number, I think over six years, if I remember rightly. Very similar results. And then there was another factory in what we now call the Ukraine, and I think that was a thousand people studied over five years and it was a car factory. Very similar results. So they have done this and they've done it in a big way.

So the studies are out there. They're done.

Studies are out there. Studies are out there and, of course, they did it in animals prior to that and they did it in vitro prior to that. So, yeah, they did all the homework, they did it properly, and so what else can we say? I could tell you the Olympic story I mean as yourself, as an Olympian, please, you might like this one. So, in specifically, of course, these substances are not on any band list, you know, very they're not actually want to ban eating meat and plants. It's going to be quite tricky, isn't it? But basically, it was the when was the London Olympics 2012. 2012. Thank you, 2012 it was. So this is, or was, the Russian women's Olympic team who won gold at the 2012 London Olympics, and I've got a great picture of the girls standing there with their coach and and Khavison, actually compressor Campton in the middle, and the various coaches. So what can we say about these girls? Well, top of their game. If you win a gold at the Olympics, aren't you at the top of your game? Yeah, you must be, mustn't you? Yeah, and so, and there's, of course, no arguing about their fitness. You know they're 20 year olds who can, you know, do what gymnasts do? So I mean just incredible. But when they came back to Russia with their gold medals, the Institute decided to run some blood work on, and they were actually shocked that their telomeres were equivalent to a 40 year old Wow, not a 20 year old gold winner, wow. And the theory is that, whilst I think everything in life is on a, is on a curve, and that curve is either you shape or bell shape. What am I talking about? Too much or too little of anything, whether it's drinking water or whatever it is, or even exercise, can be damaging. You want to be in the middle. The middle might be there, or the middle might be there, but the middle. So, the theory is that their intensive exercise regime in leading up to the Olympics was too much. Here's the good news they put them on a number of peptides and they found that within two to three weeks it may have been four weeks their telomeres normalized, wow. And they did the same thing with their cosmonauts. You send the cosmonauts off for long periods in space, and I know they exercise in space now, but nonetheless, if they're up there every year and they come back to the planet, they're a bit of a mess, yeah, and they're weak Despite the Sure. Yeah. What they find is they put them on the peptides, they induce protein synthesis and they can normalize them within one to three months, absolutely. So something very fundamental going on, yeah, and the person tells me that the Chinese are doing it as well. I've got no evidence of that, but they're open about this. There's a paper on it about these Russian girls, and so you can go and read it for yourself, and so, yeah, so there's a lot of avenues you can go down with this, obviously.

Yeah, I mean I look at somebody who trained as hard as a human being. I literally trained so hard one time that my body wouldn't let me actually get on the equipment. I wouldn't send the signal like it basically said I'm done. And I mean, when you talk about performance and world-class caliber performance, that is not good for health, like I'm sure my telomere is shortened so much from gymnastics, but that's why I'm into this stuff now.

So that yeah. The good news is you can resurrect it. Yeah, it's not a one-way street. You can do something about it. You're saying that you got this kind of shock before you got on the equipment. I get that before I get in the car to go to the gym.

That's great. I love that. Yeah, I'm glad that I'm in good company here. I'm not the only one that was.

Go have a laugh.

Yeah, life's got to be fun, have a laugh. Yeah, yeah, I love it. Well, I didn't realize there was so much published. I had no idea. To be honest with you, and I feel a little irresponsible in that regard. I'm one of the persons who clearly have just read enough books and articles on this stuff and have used it enough to be like I know it's working Unequivocally. I know 100%. I can feel it. But when you're trying to convince people, especially I'm sorry to interrupt you.

I'll tell you my story. When I first met Khavison in 2009, 2010, I had that light bulb moment. I came back and I told everybody. I said this is incredible. I got to look into this. This is amazing. But I was still skeptical. First time you ever hear anything and you go, I don't know. It sounds good, but I don't know. And then, over about a course of a year, I read more, I looked in, I started talking to people I knew and I met him again funny enough, in Brussels, and on that occasion I was able to have a one-to-one chat with him and we sat down with a drink and had a good chat and it was sinking into the grey matter. About two years in I thought, okay, let's get hold of some of this stuff and let's start finding out. And initially I sent the samples, as it were, out to doctors. I worked with quite a lot and people I know very well, and I still was skeptical. I was still sitting on the fence saying I don't think I'm going to hear anything. But I was literally expecting to hear. Eh, used it for three months, nothing, because I thought everything came back was so positive. I was flabbergasted, to be honest, and it has been quite something. I mean, I'm not going to lie to you. There are certain peptides that seem to have a more profound, faster action than others. One of them, for example, is the adrenals. Of course it depends if you have a problem or not, but I think there's again a lot of people out there, older people, who are having adrenal fatigue. They get to, I don't know, three o'clock in the afternoon and they want to go and lie down, don't they? Yeah, that's a quick fix. The thymus sorry, the thyroid is another one that people get fast results on Because suddenly you're sleeping better, energy is better, aperture regulation is better, by the way. Nice, easy way. I like to actually look at what doctors did before there were blood tests. That was a time when they actually spoke to patients and asked them questions. Because we've gone I'm not saying that blood tests are irrelevant not by any means, of course but there's a lot that can be gleaned from talking to the patients, asking questions, looking at them, physically looking at them, and I think that's a good book on this by the great endocrinologist Thierry Hurthog of Belgium. It's called the Atlas of Endocrinology. It's a pictorial book of what you look like if you're too high or too low in a specific hormone. Oh, awesome, real people. Amazing little reference guide days and that's how and because. The thing about Thierry is his father was an endocrinologist, his grandfather was a. He's a legend. He's amazing that comes from about four or five generations of endocrinologists, so they've got pictures going back to the early 1900s of people. It's just incredible. So, with that in mind, with the thyroid, the old fashioned way of apart from, do you have cold hands and feet and are you sluggish and all those questions is take your temperature first thing in the morning. Now I'm going to speak Celsius, so if you need Fahrenheit, get your calculator out. But first thing you do get out of bed in the morning and write where's the thermometer, stick it in the ear, stick it on the forehead, as you can now, and write that number down, okay, and do that for about two weeks. And then look at that list and ask yourself where are you Now? A good, healthy thyroid gland? You should be Celsius between 36.3 and 36.7. If you're in that banding, well done, healthy thyroid. But if you are regularly below 36.3, and I've even heard of people being down to 34.7, which is really low, but even if you're into 35s or something like that, you definitely have a weak thyroid, okay. And conversely, if you are regularly over 36.7, you could well be hyperthyroid. And so whatever it is you do in your life, whether it's consuming iodine, taking thyroid hormones, using the thyroid peptide, whatever it is you're going to do, keep monitoring yourself and watch your numbers change. Obviously, I'm talking here about hypothyroidism. It's that accurate. You can literally monitor yourself by 0.1 degrees Celsius.

I really like that approach of I mean, look, I use blood tests, I test my own blood for certain things. I've learned how to do it for doing it for so long. But there is a way that there's some effort. You can look at certain people and you can say, oh, they look like they're this, or they look like they're low in thyroid or people with low thyroid. Typically hair starts falling out, they're cold hands.

But I think that book is probably a good resource to dig into and to kind of by the way, some people say the Mona Lisa was hyperthyroid and you can tell that by looking at her there you go.

Oh, because of the bug eyes. The bug eyes, isn't it yeah?

Also that picture is so alluring to people. You can tell what is it about her, and a lot of hyperthyroid people have that. Some of them have the deer in the headlights. Look, yeah, but it's a bit more extreme. Yeah, well, that's. They have the energy. You can sense this energy. You can see this energy.

Yeah Well, man, this has just been very fruitful. And again, for everyone listening, I will put links to everything in the show notes. Also, we'll have a. We will have a discount for bioregulating peptides for you. It'll be check out the resources. We're setting all that stuff up right now, but again it's at stephenmcain.com backslash, bioregulators, Gosh, Stephenmcain.com/bioregulators and Phil man, I feel like I could just talk to you all day about this stuff. I mean, what a pleasure. We chatted for an hour, I think before we even started this.

Yeah, we did. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I like I've reached a point in my life where, if people are not interested in what I have to say, I ain't going to waste any time, because I can move on and I don't want to stress myself out as well. I'm not here to convince people of anything, but when I've got somebody like yourself who really is interested and we can share stuff, then I really enjoy it.

Yeah, I mean, you're my kind of guy I really enjoy. I'm so glad we met and by all means, do not be a stranger, like, if you think of anything or you just like, oh, I think Steve would like this, you feel free to reach out and thank you for introducing to my audience these bioregulators, these magic, simple organic compounds that can bring the body back into homeostasis. I mean, what an incredible. There is no risk to trying this stuff as far as I'm concerned. No, right.

I've got several what I call wow stories and we can get into some of the others or some other future point if you ever want to hear them, but none of them are as broad in their possibilities as this one. Other ones are quite specific for this problem or that problem, but these have enormous implications.

Were you going to tell one? Well, that is well. What are the other wow stories? What are one?

of the other wows. Well, the magic hand cream which can remove cataracts with an eye drop. I think that's a pretty wow story.

Yeah.

There's a skin cream that comes from the island of Vanuatu, believe it or not, which is near New Zealand and people. This is almost a sort of thing that gets you de-platformed by saying this and you can cut it out afterwards, but it has been shown in 80,000 patient cases to be 100% successful in removing skin cancer and they know why, and it's been published for over 30 years, mainly in Australasian publications. Interesting, so that's. Maybe you want another session on that some other time. Yeah, is all this stuff on the articles and it's been in our magazine as well, and I am delighted to say that Bill Edward Cham, the man who discovered this and spent 20 years of his life working on it, who lives is a biochemist, who lives in Vanuatu is coming to England next year to tell us all about it. So I've never met him in person, so I'm really looking forward to that.

Fantastic. Well, Phil, I will. I'm definitely going to get back on some of your bioregulators and I'm going to look at some of these books. I highly recommend check out the resources for this podcast and, Phil, I love it. I thank you so much for bringing this killer knowledge and this is the kind of stuff that can change people's lives. Someone's listening to this and they try it and all of a sudden it's like you change the course of someone's life. So I respect that and I look forward to seeing you when you come to Vegas potentially A4M, yeah.

Absolutely. You'll have to buy me a mojito, though okay, I'll buy you a mojito?

Yeah, that'd be great Fantastic.

Great stuff.

Yeah, thanks again, Phil, and for everyone that's tuned in, thank you for listening to this episode. By the way, I'm coming out of the closet here and I had the most famous virus. Again. Right now I'm dealing with it. I think I dealt with it pretty well. I'm still recovering, but I didn't want to miss this podcast, so check out the show. Note resources.

Stay on. After you stop, because I'd like to tell you something.

Okay, definitely, and thanks everyone for tuning in and we'll see you on the next episode of the Stephen McCain podcast. Stay healthy everyone. Thanks guys.