00:00 Stephen McCain 

Welcome to the Steve McCain podcast where every week I bring you people doing world-class things in the field of human optimization and performance. This week is all about optimizing your NAD levels and we are going to have Dr. Jin Zhongxi, who is the founder of Jinfinity. They make a bunch of really high-end tests, but more specifically they have a NAD test that you can buy as a consumer that tests your intracellular NAD levels. That's how much NAD you're getting inside the cell. So NAD is very popular. All these supplements, people are taking NAD precursors. How do you know your supplements working? Well, in this episode, we're going to give you a turnkey solution, a product in a test to completely optimize your levels and to get this biomarker optimized. It is one of the most important, if not most important biomarkers for you to optimize. Let's do this. Dr. Shi, thank you so much for coming on the Steve McCain podcast. It's really my pleasure to join you, Steven. I'm really excited about talking with you because you have become the NAD man. Like you are a world-class thought leader and you have a company that is the, correct me if I'm wrong, is the only company that can measure intracellular NAD. And this is what everyone's using now, right? That's correct. Awesome. Maybe if you wouldn't mind taking a few seconds to brag about yourself and your company, tell us what's going on and how awesome you guys are. Thank you.

01:47 Dr She 

So I usually tell people that I have been an academic scientist for almost four decades and here about 16 months ago. I have taught and I did research in multiple medical schools in the United States. And I am one of the best-funded scientists in not only in the United States, but really all over the world. And it has been a distinct pleasure to be among this group of very distinguished and accomplished scientists. And, you know, after almost four decades, I published enough papers, over 400 of them. And, you know, unfortunately, most of the discoveries that the scientists make in the laboratory don't get translated into clinical practice or into product, into services. And they are pretty much wasted. And a lot of the data and very important data just stay on the desk of a scientist. So I decided that it's time for me to pay back to society and use the knowledge and skills I have accumulated over the many years. So that we can develop a product and test that can be used by patients, consumers, doctors, and like. And, you know, my goal is really to improve health and extend health assistance. And I'm selfish. You know, I'm 61 years old. And if I don't take action now, it will probably be too late if I wait for another 10 or 20 years. So the time is now to act. So that's why I decided to quit my academic job and really start a new company. And I went from having 70, 80 scientists working under me to nothing. Me and my wife. But, you know, the company, Gfinity, has grown very fast in the last two years. That's because we have a bunch of tests and we have some neutral chemicals that really work. Customers love our product. They love our tests. They love our supplements.

04:50 Stephen McCain 

And it has been fantastic. I don't regret the great decision I made 16 months ago. Yeah, you took a risk and it looks like it's paying off. I mean, I have one of your products right here with me to kind of show the audience that, hey, I use your products and I really like what you're doing. You mentioned the word healthspan and it's funny because a couple of years ago, everyone was talking about longevity. And then I think people realized, well, I don't want to just live a long time. I want to feel great the whole time that I'm alive. I want to have the most access to my faculties and my abilities. And so NAD in particular, what I would like to talk to you about is one of those molecules that has the ability to extend healthspan. Right. So, yeah. So maybe if you could just kind of explain what is the simplified version for the listeners of what NAD is and why it's so important.

05:54 Dr She Sure.

I'll make two points. The first one is I want to comment on what you said about healthspan. And then I will go into NAD if you are not. Yeah, of course. Because as you said, longevity, even immortality are the dream of everyone, maybe not everyone, of many people since ancient times. Right. Yeah. But I don't think that immortality especially is achievable at the moment. I wish we can, but that's not something that I'm dreaming for. Longevity, of course, we want to have longevity. But as you said, if you live for 200 years in bed, who cares? We want to be vital, we want to be active, we want to be productive, we want to enjoy life, we want to contribute to humankind. And the only way you can do it is to have your health. So the goal ought to be to extend the number of healthy years that we can live, that we can be productive, that we can have a good time. That's really called healthspan. I think extension of healthspan is much more important than extending lifespan. Even though I would not have to extend lifespan as well, but we can extend lifespan by extending healthspan. So in summary, everyone should care about healthspan. And once we can extend the lifespan, then we can try to see whether we can further extend lifespan. The maximum lifespan is actually probably around 130, 150 years. We don't live to 130 or 150 because we die of major diseases or we die of injury, accidents. And so if we extend healthspan, we extend lifespan by definition. So that's the point I want to emphasize even more. Yeah, thank you. There are many different ways that one can extend healthspan. In SG Infinity, we advocate a program that we call TAO. So what is TAO? For those who understand a little bit of the oriental Chinese ancient philosophy, it's called TAO. It's a little too complicated, but I think it's a fascinating philosophy that can be applied to many things. And it was applied to life science. But TAO, which infinity stands for health, action, and optimize. And this is a loop. It's an iterative process. So you have to test in order to know what you're deficient in. You have to test in order to know what your actions are working or not. So testing is very important. It's the first step. With testing, you can act in a very personalized, very precise way to achieve better outcomes. And optimize, of course, is with your actions and the data you adjust what you do. For example, you may change your lifestyle. You may have to become more active. You may have to choose certain types of exercise. You may have to take certain types of supplements and how much supplements you should take and so on. So test, act, optimize, TAO. Now, that's great. In reality, how you really get the TAO program to work well. And we have eight pinners of TAO. That stands for 8P. So I will have my screen up so I can be reminded of what are the eight pinners. If I'm looking on the left, you know I'm looking at my computer screen. Let me give it to you. You want to be proactive, predictive. You want to prioritize and you want it to be preventive. And then you want the precision. You want the personalization. And you want to be a parallel approach, more holistic. And finally, you need persistence. You cannot do it one day and then forget about it for two more days or three more days. You got to do it every day. Your actions have to be persistent if you want to achieve, well, extend health respect. So with these eight pinners, if you do it, I think you can easily extend your health span by a decade or two or even three. And it's possible to live well beyond 100 years. And if you really do it as we preach, right? It's not easy. It's hard.

12:23 Stephen McCain 

Yeah, let me just jump in on here for a second because in the past, it was always when it came to health, it was who's this famous person and what are they taking? I'm going to do that. And then we start moving in more to, okay, what's the research showing? What is the double blind control studies, peer review? Like this says it, everyone should do this. Now we're moving into personalized medicine where we are realizing that everyone is biochemically a little bit individual or a lot in some circumstances. And so having testing and then implementing and retesting and reimplementing until you get to an optimal state is I think right now what we're all moving towards. And I just met Brian Johnson, who is probably at the top of the food chain in this, you know, ready, he's testing all 78 of his organs and he's it's the most of the path of the person you can. Yeah, no doubt about it. Yeah. And every time I've gone about doing things, there are some things that you can do that you say, I feel a lot better after I do this. But there's a lot of things that you can't feel like like your diet. I mean, you can feel your diet if you're eating something that you have a sensitivity to, but you have to get in there and look under the hood and you've got to see how this is affecting my biomarkers. Right. And it's so awesome because now there's all these tests that are coming to the consumer, not just the medical side, like your tests I can buy and I have access to these. You know, I saw that you also have a senoletic test. I mean, you got some great things that are coming out. I used to just know you as the NAD guy, but now I'm seeing that you're flushing out this entire process. So this is amazing. And I think is anybody that is going to really say I am committed to my health, this process has to be sequestered. It's got to be a part of your your regimen. Right. Yeah.

14:32 Dr She 

So we at Gvinity, we have two programs. And one is a basic program that I call NAD optimization program. And I'll explain to you why and that's important. And the second program is called longevity for health expense extension program. And so if you want to extend health expense, you want to follow the principles that I was talking about. And you have to check the natural panel of biomarkers. We have very carefully curated 20 some biomarkers that will give you a very good Overworld assessment of your current health and where you might be headed into in the future. So the goal is to identify some optimal health issues that someone has right now. You take actions to reverse the cause to prevent major diseases in the future. So that will probably take a much longer time for us to talk about. Because you want to focus on NAD. Let's talk about NAD optimization today. Maybe you can get me on another time. We can talk about it. Absolutely. Much broader terms. Now, so if you allow me, you know, why we have this NAD optimization program. And that's because NAD is probably the most important life molecule. You know, probably not one of them. It's probably the most important one. Now, what is NAD? NAD is a tiny compound that our body can make. And that is involved in almost all biological processes that are going on in our body. It's called a core enzyme. The core enzyme is something that helps many other proteins to function. In the case of NAD, the function of over 500 different proteins requires the help from NAD. Without NAD, these enzymes wouldn't function at all. Or at least don't function very well. So among all these proteins and biological processes, the most important one is the production of cellular energy in the form of ATP. Many of your listeners probably know what ATP is. But if you don't know, ATP is like the gasoline of your car. And that's what makes your engine work. So ATP powers our cells and our body.

18:00 Stephen McCain 

And without ATP, we don't have energy and we don't function. So basically, NAD is the bottleneck in the body to produce cellular energy, which is basically how the entire body runs. So it is… OK, got it.

18:20 Dr She 

So it controls the production of cellular energy. That's the most important function of NAD. That is why when you don't have enough NAD in your body, you feel tired and you feel you don't have enough energy. And your performance may not be at the peak. So with the optimum level of NAD, the production of energy is optimized. Unfortunately, NAD never declines with age. And by our late 20s and early 30s, our NAD level is already at about 50 percent of what we used to have in our teenage years. And by our 50s and 60s, we're dropping to one third, one quarter of what we normally have. So that's a pretty deep decline of NAD levels with age.

19:43 Stephen McCain 

Yeah. When would you recommend… That's kind of a way to know. OK, when would you recommend somebody start testing and maybe implementing a NAD supplement around when they turn 30, 20s?

19:58 Dr She 

Yes and no. Let me explain to you why. The common recommendation from experts is, well, you want to test and you want to supplement when you are at your middle age or when you're on NAD. That's actually not quite true. That's because about 25 percent of very young people, partners, even infants and teenagers are deficient in NAD. I have two young children. One is almost seven years old, the other one is a little over two. My two-year-old has the optimum NAD level, so she's fine. But my seven-year-old is already suboptimal for NAD level. So we kind of knew that 25 percent of people are deficient in NAD based on the extensive testing we have done. So once we know that her level was low, we put her on the supplement because the supplement is very safe. My wife was on it when she was pregnant with our two-year-old. She was on it during breastfeeding and it's a very safe nutrient.

21:26 Stephen McCain 

It's a nutrient, like a food. It's a B vitamin, right? It's a derivative of a B vitamin.

21:33 Dr She 

It's a vitamin B and it's very safe. It's a newer form of vitamin B. And so the vitamin I often use for people to understand is vitamin D, right? Now just think about it. We supplement newborns with vitamin D, right? Every parent, at least in the industrialized countries, in countries that have some basic health care, every family, every parent is supplementing their infant with vitamin D drops. We have to do the same with NAD because our infants are already deficient in NAD level. Is that a genetic thing? Yes, it's a genetic component. We're still trying to understand it. We do see that Asians, Chinese, Vietnamese, especially Vietnamese, Koreans, Indians tend to have a lower level of NAD than Caucasians. Interesting. It has to be a genetic component because if you look at Chinese or Indians in America, they have a lower level than Caucasians in America. So it's not purely a lifestyle or environmental issue. It's a genetic component.

23:21 Stephen McCain 

Do you think it's related to methylation? Because some people have that MTHFR gene mutation in those cultures. And do you need proper methylation in order to make NAD? I assume you do. No, you don't.

23:41 Dr She 

No, there's a common misunderstanding from the NAD supplement takers. Because they hear from people that you should take a TMG, a methyl group, and they think that the TMG has something to do with making NAD and so on. That's a totally misunderstood concept. Interesting. TMG is not going to help you to make NAD. It actually may decrease the production of NAD. The reason that some people may want to supplement with TMG is because the broken down element of NAD is a compound called nicotinamide. It's a small component of the NAD molecule. Now nicotinamide is excreted out of our body through urine after it's macinating. So macinating nicotinamide is excreted. So if you have a lot of NAD, a lot of nicotinamide, you may deplete your methyl groups because of the excretion. That's why some people say, oh, I get the question all the time. Do I need to take a TMG? Because some experts recommend taking a TMG. I really don't know how important it is to take a TMG. I personally don't take it. I don't think we are really deficient in methadone. But you can take some from time to time. It's okay. It's probably not so detrimental. My philosophy is you don't want to take too much stuff that you don't need. I try to take the minimum amount that I need to stay healthy and to stay at my best performance. I don't think the TMG is one compound that I want to start with. I may take some from time to time. Now, if you are really deficient in methyl groups, your homocysteine may be increased. So if you monitor your homocysteine and it's in the optimum range, the need for TMG may not be so high. I'm not going to take the time if I want to.

26:49 Stephen McCain 

Yeah, and your homocysteine, you should get that value at least once on your annual blood lab. Right? Because that's a cardiovascular risk. So we have established that NAD is the bottleneck. And in terms of your cellular energy production, it declines as we age. Some people inherently just don't make it enough. So even if you're a baby, you still might want to have your baby tested or you should be testing at any age. Now, am I correct in assuming that it's kind of a double whammy when it goes down too? Because it's not only that you're not getting the energy, but you're also lacking the energy to make the bodily functions that actually repair the body. So you're getting less energy to build the infrastructure which takes care of your body. So you're getting, it's like a double whammy in a way, right?

27:46 Dr She 

It is. In biology, everything is in a loop or we call it a network. Everything's interconnected. Now, when someone is deficient in NAD, what happens is you tend to have higher inflammation. You also tend to have higher senescence. I don't know how many of you understand what senescence is. Senescence is basically the production of aging cells, zombie cells. They don't function properly, but they refuse to die. They sit there and create a bunch of molecules that are really bad, mostly inflammatory proteins and other compounds. They travel all over your body and make your healthy cells age faster. Basically bad, bad stuff.

28:45 Stephen McCain 

Yeah, it's just a cell that's forgotten what its job was. So it's just sitting there and just releasing inflammatory… Yeah, speaking out of bad stuff. So you also tend to have higher oxidative stress or free radicals. And these free radicals can damage your DNA, can damage your protein, can damage your cells, and cause all kinds of problems. So it's just a loop that goes on and on and on. If you have higher inflammation, then that will help to keep your NAD further. It just goes down and down and down. So you don't age in a linear fashion, you age in an exponential fashion when you're… Yeah. Okay, got it. So you had this test, and it's the only test in the world that measures the intracellular NAD?

29:46 Dr She 

It's the only test that can be done for consumers. Got it. Okay. In some research laboratories, they can test for NAD. And the problem is those tests are expensive, they cannot be done remotely. And most importantly, no one else has established what's the optimum range and what level you should have. It's not just the test that we have. And more importantly, it's the information that we have accumulated. Okay. Before we got into this field, a few companies have tried to develop a test and established pretty much what we have established now. The field is pretty miserable because there are a few issues that you have to solve. Number one, NAD is not very stable. You have to find a way to stabilize it so you can ship it from a remote location to the laboratory. And even if someone can test it, as we do, but we still have not done enough research to know how to interpret the data they have. Because what's tested in our laboratory, what's in a different laboratory can be very different because the tests have not been calibrated among the different laboratories. We are setting the gold standard. I mean, anyone who comes up with a test and wants to push it to the market, ideally, they want to come to us and calibrate their test to what we have. Because we have a tremendous amount of information that's required to interpret the testing results. It's not just the test. It's how you interpret the data.

32:01 Stephen McCain 

Yeah, even like a lot of people may not know this, but certain doctors will only use certain blood labs because they know their use to their results. It's not just I like the way the information is presented, but I'll get a different reading at this lab, LabCorp, versus Quest. And so a doctor will say, no, no, no, go to this one specifically because then it's standardized to what I know because that's the information I've been looking at for the last few years.

32:30 Dr She 

So you're setting the bar and saying this is what everything, the yardstick, everything should be measured against. Exactly. I mean, ideally, anyone who comes up with a test or wants to do a test, I'm not claiming that their NAD is mine. No one else can test. I mean, everyone should be welcome to test. But as needs, let the community calibrate what they test so we are all talking about the same thing. So the consumer understands what information they are getting. So let the scientists, I know how to do it. That's what I used to do. And there are programs that we can set up for us to test and to compare to what we have. At NIST, we will provide similarly useful information to the patient and to consumers. Otherwise, it's going to be very chaotic. But I know we're at a very early stages of testing NAD and this will happen and it must happen.

33:45 Stephen McCain 

I'm sure that something will work out by itself. Yeah. Well, I mean, look, you're obviously made a good choice of something to test and do what you're doing because this is, like you said, an important life molecule, if not the most important. Let's talk about how simple your test is because somebody when they think test, they're like, you know, this thing is really simple. It's an at home test. You just prick your finger. You put a little drop of blood on a little sheet of paper and a little area. And then you just mail it to you guys. In a few days, you get an email that says, here's your levels. Right. And then it says, take, take more of this supplement or take less of it, basically. Right.

34:29 Dr She 

Yeah. Let's call somebody here. And, you know, we send an at home testing kit to the person who wants to take the test. And you prick the finger, get a couple drops of blood and mail it back to us in a few days. You got your results. And I work with my personal time to talk to almost every single customer who wants the information. OK, I know it's not sustainable, but I enjoy it because I want everyone to understand how to do it. What's the best way to get the NAD optimized? If not, you need to get your NAD level higher. But we have a small percentage of customers who got their NAD level too high. Right. We don't want the level to be too high either. We don't really know how high it's too high, but we have some idea that we want to stay careful, cautious, that you don't want to overdo anything.

35:49 Stephen McCain 

Yeah. You don't want to be super physiologic about it. Yeah. There's no one in existence that's ever had that level that's been recorded. And all of a sudden you think it's great to be at 250 or whatever past the optimal levels. When I met you at A4M briefly and I talked to a lot of people, I love talking to scientists. I love talking to doctors where you were like very friendly and I felt like immediately that I could connect with you. And you were like, yeah, go get the test and did it here. Here's this. And I remember I asked you like you were like here. I was like, oh, how much show you feel? You're like, just take it. Do it. You know, just just do it. I could tell this is somebody who's invested in what they do. So anyone listening knows, hey, I, if you want to do this, which I think you should, you know, just know that there's a person behind the website that is actually there for you that cares and will make sure that you get your levels optimized.

36:42 Dr She 

You know, that's pretty awesome. Yeah, I mean, I know I've been living in this stuff and I believe in getting everyone healthy. And I do give out a lot of free supplements and free products. And I think I believe in it. Someone who can afford it should pay a little more so I can give them more free stuff and do more research and help. But there was a group who cannot really afford it. And that's how we bring it right down. Yeah, I come from a communist country, but I'm not a communist. But I do believe in helping the less fortunate people.

37:30 Stephen McCain 

'So if we are able to afford it, you know, pay the full price, do I can, I can give you more, more free stuff and do more research and try to help everyone. Yeah, that's fantastic. I love it. I will make sure to put links to your website, the test in the show notes. I do. So now we know how easy it is to test. And unless you want to talk more about the test, but let's talk about your product because there is a lot of information out there that can wrong foot or just confuse people about how do I raise my NAD levels? Like, can I go to a place and, you know, do an IV and get NAD or is that too big to get into the cell? Should I use nicotinamide riboside? Should I use nicotinamide mononucleotide? Like, how do I know how to, you know, what is the best way to do this? And maybe there's multiple ways, right?

38:25 Dr She 

Yeah. So now the first thing is, yeah, potentially many different ways one can innovate. And the difference is what's more efficient, what works better, what's more convenient, and what provides more clinical benefits. So we can run down the list very quickly. The very popular one is what you have mentioned, NAD. Now, you know, NAD is a molecule that provides the function. Well, the first thought is why don't we just give people NAD? Because we can make NAD in the factory, right? It's possible to do. And we actually have been doing that not in the way in the community. We have been doing that for at least 20, 30 years. And the popular way has been to give NAD through IV. There are many reasons that don't have time to get it in. And NAD IV has actually provided benefits to certain individuals. And primarily it's one who has addiction, who has some neurological condition, and also certain infections like Lyme disease. Even with COVID, some non-COVID patients are actually getting some benefit from NAD through IV. So I'm not saying that NAD IV usually doesn't do anything. But the main concept is that the NAD IV works or provides benefits because it allows you to have a higher NAD level in yourself. That's totally, completely wrong. And no one knew it until we have done the clinical study. So in this clinical study, we had 10 people who gave the five sessions of NAD IV each time with 750 milligrams of NAD. By the way, quite a lot. After 10 days, five sessions, the NAD level in the cells did not look at war. And then we gave them our own information. After two weeks, the war went on and doubled and went to what we call the green zone or the optimum zone. Now, so if your goal is for longevity or health expense and getting the NAD IV is probably not the best idea because it's expensive, inconvenient. It may give you some temporary relief. It does not help yourself in the long run. That's not the right way to end the way to NAD level unless you have some of the conditions I mentioned. That's the first thing I want to get your call. And then many people are getting injections of NAD.

42:00 Stephen McCain 

Like a sub-Q injection, right? Sub-Q injection. And some people are getting patches of NAD and it's becoming somewhat popular. I have done all those, by the way. So keep going.

42:18 Dr She 

I have. Sub-Q NAD injection actually end with your NAD a little bit, but it does not get the NAD level into the optimum range. Okay.

42:31 Stephen McCain 

The patches don't really work that much at all. Okay. It's so weird. I don't want to cut you off because I won't. But I did the patches for a little while because you could get like what appeared to be a massive dose and you just wear it on your arm. I used to wear it right here for 12 hours. And I don't know if it was a placebo effect or whatever, but I was like, I just felt like I had a lot of energy from those things. And I was like, it feels like it's working. But then again, I wasn't testing anything. So it goes back to what you're talking about. It's like at the end of the day, yes, maybe there is some benefit to, you know, I also did the sub-Q injections, but the problem with all the NAD products is you got to keep them cold. It's unstable at room temperature, right? So unlike a precursor, like an NMN or an NR like that, you can just have it sitting in the shelf. So anyways, you were saying there's always different modalities.

43:29 Dr She 

Yeah. I mean, so given the modalities and, you know, people are welcome to try everything they want to try. But I can almost guarantee you, once they experience the right product, they are now going back to the injection or IV. And very, very few people do. And we have, you know, thousands and thousands of people who have done those things. And once they have used our product, they don't go back to SNL because of many issues. The best way to innovate or optimize the NAD level is through the precursor or building blocks that our sales can use to make an NAD molecule. And now you mentioned the NRs, NMN, NMN, you mentioned the mononucleotide. Many people are asking if NMN is better than NR or vice versa. I can tell you both of these two precursors work in terms of innovating NAD. I think they are actually comparable. I like NMN better because of the added function from NMN that NR doesn't seem to provide. So that's the first point. The second point is if you are only taking NMN alone, that can innovate NAD level in about 40 to 50 percent of the users, but it does not seem to provide as much clinical help as the formulation that we have. In the vitality both. So in the vitality both, we have four ingredients. We have NMN, about 50 percent is NMN, and the other three ingredients are creating monohydrate. We have D-ribose and we have nicotidamide. Now with these four ingredients, somehow magically we can innovate NAD level for about 90 percent of the users. And more importantly, suddenly 80 percent of the people are getting noticeable clinical benefits. It can be physical, physiological, it can be at a performance level, it can be actually sexual in performance.

46:30 SPEAKER_01 It's something that I have never… Nothing wrong with that, right?

46:35 Dr She 

I cannot pick the credit because my wife, who is a chemist, she actually came up with the formulation. Oh wow, that's great.

46:52 Stephen McCain 

I'm telling everyone the wonderful thing that she did. That's great. I mean, that's so cool that you have a team with your wife and that you guys can work together on a project like this.

47:05 Dr She 

That's fascinating. So, you know, we initially we did not… We were trying to solve a different problem. Many of your listeners, if they use NMN or NR, they may know that a good proportion of NMN users do feel some headaches or sleepiness. And if you look at the internet, that's one very common comment for side effects associated with NMN. So we were trying to come up with a formulation that can counteract the side effects from NMN. Interesting. Yes. So with the formulation, we achieved that and then you can expect me to get more additional benefits. And now I understand how it works. Not only we are increasing your NAD level, we are increasing your ATP production, we are also helping you to store the ATP that you don't need. We are not moving. We are not exercising. Now, it's like a battery, right? So you charge your battery when you have your battery for ATP, when you don't need it so much.

48:37 Stephen McCain 

And then when you exercise, when you have physical activity, the ATP is released from the battery to make your body function. That's something that I didn't realize. I only figured it out about three weeks ago, by the way. So you kind of like backed into this thing. You threw this formulation together. It worked. And then you had to go and try to research to figure out why it was working so well.

49:06 Dr She 

Yeah, I'm a fine kid. Okay, I want to know how it works and how I can improve. If I know how to work, I can find a way to improve it. And now we know it only works for about 90% of the people.

49:21 Stephen McCain 

We are doing research to figure out how we can help the other 10%. Yeah. So you're working on the other 10% now. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I cannot get the 100% people's NAD up. I think we have some ideas as to why it doesn't work for them. And we should have a solution pretty soon. Fantastic. Well, I mean, I love your product. And I mean, I'm a pretty optimal guy and stay physically fit. I do a ton of things. I mean, I wouldn't even have time for me to list all of them. But for me, I'm bought and sold into the idea that this is something that should be managed. And I'm very thankful that we have someone like you who's laid out the tool basically said, look, here it is. Not only can you test it, but you can take this product that I've made. My wife have invented to optimize it and then just keep retesting. Let me ask you this. So let's say I get optimal and I get my test and it's great. Are there certain things or times when I might need a little extra? Like if I go through a stressful period or if I'm pushing really hard in the gym, like say I do it like a new program? Are there like telltale things like that?

50:47 Dr She 

Your opposite isn't right. So let me tell you what I do. So usually I take a two scoops a day and one way in the early part of the day and another one right before bedtime because it helps me to sleep better. And that's why I take one better time. I usually take the first dose after lunch. And you know, usually by five, six o'clock, I work very hard. And by five, six o'clock, I get a little tired. I forgot to take my dose after lunch today. And that's why I came on to your show. I need to get a dose to keep me awake. I'm fine now. But on the weekend when I play tennis, I'm a tennis player. I take an extra dose. If I go to my tennis game, I take one dose in the very early morning. And in the afternoon, I take another one. So that actually helps me quite a bit. If I don't have a good night of sleep, I feel not at my best. I'm making good extra dose. And I can feel the difference after about five to 10 minutes.

52:03 Stephen McCain 

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, because I have a relationship with a lot of products and molecules that I can tell. Like, I've done them enough to where I can sort of keep myself in line. Like, oh, I need a little more of this or that. When you start feeling like, oh, I might be getting sick, a little extra vitamin D. There's certain things you just kind of know. But I'm going to take your approach. And for me, it's like I will say, OK, I know that scoop of the morning, scoop of the evening kind of keeps me in the optimal range. But if I have like sleep, stress, full situation or I got my ass kicked in the gym or whatever, like I might do a little extra. I'm going to take that approach. Yeah. You got to know your body. You know your body.

52:46 Dr She 

And you have to know your body well. And if you know you're not at the best, I'm taking the little extra to really feel. Yeah. Yeah. Did we miss anything?

53:00 Stephen McCain 

Because I feel like, you know, somebody who's listening to this has a really good idea now of the importance of an AD. They know the importance of an AD. They realize that, hey, every day that goes by over the course of years, your levels are going down and you should do something about it. They know you have a test. They know you have a product. And so I'm just wondering if there's anything that would help any of the listeners, you know, feel like they've got their head wrapped around this. Yeah.

53:29 Dr She 

I mean, I think one point that we haven't really discussed is if you get your own AD, you know, you're going to have to do a little extra. If you get your own AD level to the 50 or 60, when required, it needs 40. OK, but 40 is the bare minimum. OK. Most people who experience the clear, the noticeable difference are those who have an AD level above 50. Got it. Some people can get a noticeable improvement in the body. But most people, if you tell me, I mean, I have customers calling me very quickly after one door, even actually one door. Wow. I would feel more energetic. I know. I know the only the level will be in the 50s, 60s or 70s.

54:30 SPEAKER_03 Yeah. What's the upper limit?

54:35 Dr She 

If you're speaking to them and you don't notice the difference, you need to come talk to me and experience what we have. If you're not willing to pay, I may even give you a free bottle.

54:50 Stephen McCain 

Be careful. That's fantastic that you're that kind of person.

54:56 SPEAKER_01 

I actually do it. I actually do it. It's not that I'm talking about. I actually do it. I do it for everyone.

55:04 Stephen McCain 

Being realistic. Yeah. But there's a lot of fake products out there. There's a lot of fake in a man. A lot of people have done studies on this. They actually went and tested it and it was just garbage. I mean, I always tell people, do not buy your supplements on Amazon. I mean, you know, Amazon is good for certain things, you know, toilet paper and garbage bags and things like that. But don't buy your supplements on there. You know, go to a reputable source like Dr. Shi and so in a way, the levels are kind of similar to vitamin D, right?

55:38 Dr She 

Because, OK, so it would 100 be sort of the maximum cap you'd want to be at. 100 is kind of the current cap. But we have about 5% of the customers who got it to, you know, between 100 and 150. OK. I don't know. And I'm not sure 150 is really bad. But I'm a very cautious guy, right? I don't want anyone to over do it until we have more data. But I have a customer, a Canadian lady who has Parkinson's disease. And she's actually has a testimony from her on our website. She has Parkinson's disease. And with our fall down, she got her level into 120. But she was getting great benefit. I'm not going to tell her to reduce the dose to get to the 100 because she should benefit from the level she has. And I don't and really don't know that, you know, between 100 and 150 is really bad. I said it was 100 just to be safe, to be cautious. And I have no evidence that 150 would be bad.

57:05 Stephen McCain 

Yeah. What's the highest you've seen? 250?

57:09 Dr She 

250. I have one guy. I have one guy at 250. You see, he might have much problem at all. And then I have a bunch of people around 150. They are fine. But usually I think you may want to save some money and take a little nair, save some money.

57:34 Stephen McCain 

Yeah, because if you're going to be on it for life, you know, there's no reason to like you start going crazy with it. So, I mean, I keep my vitamin D levels around 60. So I would imagine that's probably, you know, and probably.

57:46 Dr She 

That's what I have. My vitamin D is 65. My only D is 65. Yeah, I think that's a good. I'm perfectly fine. If you're in the 50s and 60s, there's no reason to take more to get to the higher. But if you are taking a reasonable amount, you know, thousand milligrams or net, and you're in a difficult 100, I would say, you know, stay near. Yeah, yeah.

58:15 Stephen McCain 

Unless you feel something that's not going right. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I mean, obviously, hopefully somebody, if they've gone this far to test their NAD levels, they're also doing their annual blood labs and testing other things and making sure that, you know, I always say go after what's going to kill you first. So you got to know because if I could live to 130, but this thing at 90 is going to kill me at 90. I need to know that. Right.

58:43 SPEAKER_03 

You know, my nine. So my nine years. Is that yours? Now, my my my nine years, you want to identify your weakest link. Yes, exactly.

58:55 Stephen McCain 

You want to know what what's going to kill you first. So, yeah, yeah, that's yeah, I always tell people that because it's so important. I'm like, you know, there's no point in optimizing all this other stuff. If this is going to kill you and you're just and I tell people, be a student. Like, if you know you had this propensity, like maybe you have a genetic thing that, you know, for heart disease or whatever it is, you need to be a student of that. Do not outsource that to the doctor. Like work with doctors, but you need to meet them halfway. You got to be a student of it because it's your life at the end of the day.

59:30 Dr She 

You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, you know, for someone who has a very concrete, located in the health history, I would highly recommend the same functional medicine or integrative medicine doctor instead of just for sure. Special needs. And you know, I was a professor in medical school for a long, long time, right? I kept training large numbers of doctors. I mean, they are trained to specialize. They are trained. They are experts in their own little niche. Yes. They don't think outside of their own specialty because it's not their job. Yeah. But for a person, we're not just a liver or a heart or a kidney. Yeah. We are for a person. You will have a health problem. You often, very often, the whole body is affected. The whole body is not functioning properly. You got to have someone who is looking at how your whole body is functioning and how you tackle the entire problem systematically. Yes. Not just, oh, why are you treating your kidney today? I'm going to treat your heart. But what is the interrelated issues have a set of common root causes. You have to take the root causes, not just the symptoms. Exactly.

01:01:19 Stephen McCain 

Our doctors are trained to tackle the symptoms, not the root causes. Yeah, because they're all like the saying, everything to a hammer is a nail. They only see it in one way. I tell people, because I help a lot of people, and I tell them, first of all, let's get your basics dialed in, your sleep, your nutrition, your exercise, your stress management, and then managing your environmental toxic load. And then let's get you out of the sick care system and let's get you to a functional medicine or integrated physician. Those are the people that can optimize you. Those are the people that seek to find the root cause of what is causing everything, not just giving you your pill. And the few times that I watch TV and I see commercials of all these medications and you see all the side effects and you're like, God, we're living in this society that just they just want their pill. And, you know, at the end of the day, I know it costs money. You have to go out of pocket a lot of times because the insurance companies don't work with these types of physicians, but you're going to pay for it anyways in the long run. And most importantly, you're going to pay for it with your life. You know what I mean? So yeah, I knew I knew we had a connection. I knew there was I bet you if we kept talking like we would find more and more like similarities in our philosophy, you know, and I really, I really appreciate it. I really appreciate you coming on. I mean, it was a it was a real honor to have you on the podcast. And I think that this was super informative for the listeners. And selfishly, I would love to try your other program and then get on a call with you where we, you know, like a little bit more advanced testing because I'm someone I will do it by the book. I will literally like, you know. And so if you're interested in something like that, I'm all ears and I'm game.

01:03:13 Dr She 

I will send you our agent. You know, for anyone interested in longevity, high performance, the agent is aware is the one that you want to do. Awesome. You know, if any if any if any of the prices because we you know, we tested over 20 different biomarkers. That's a many of them are not available anywhere else. We have to spend a lot of time and money to to develop it. But the amount of information you gain from the panels are just so incredible. And so that next, you know, the knowledge of the biohackers kind of shooting the dots. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, one one thing that's really important before I go. You know, if you are a biohacker, just listen to me. And many of the biohackers have walked away actually causing more harm than good by doing what we are doing without the proper testing and information. Yeah. The common problem is kidney toxicity. You know, kidney is the organ that the knee, all the drugs, all the stuff you take, your body doesn't need. If you take a hundred twenty different supplements and not other stuff, your kidney has to work very hard to get rid of them. Unfortunately, we are seeing an art of suboptimal kidney function and it's not good. I don't want to stay. Wow. Yeah. Get the testing with us or with, you know, as the provider kidney function is part of the annual physical exam, what should it be part of? You can get the information. Yeah. And if you don't mean you can cut you talk to me and we can get to a test. But if you can get it for free or paid by insurance by warming. Right. I have to save money. Yeah.

01:05:42 Stephen McCain

Well, thank you for that caveat, because that is a nice piece of insider information, you know, that a lot of people can just be throwing a lot of stuff down the hatch and not thinking about it's all being filtered through my kidneys. Right. Maybe not my liver, too. You know, you have to look at your liver enzymes. I'm definitely interested in your products because I got to keep up with Brian Johnson. He I'm actually older than him. And when John, they actually on my program. And oh, there we go. OK. OK. Fantastic.

01:06:12 Dr She 

I'm taking my time to take in our community product. And I I hope I'm one of the strategic doctors.

01:06:20 Stephen McCain

Besides, we are well featured on when Johnson's website and he recommends what we do. Well, I'm recommending what you guys do. I will be featuring you on my website and I'll put everything that we talked about in the show notes. I really appreciate your time and your information, because my goal is not just health span, it's fit span. I want to have a life where I can be physically fit and do all the things that I know how to do and be active. You know, so your product is sort of a cornerstone in that process for me. So thank you for what you do and thank you for coming on the show. I really appreciate your time and your knowledge. Yeah, thank you very much. I really enjoyed our conversation and best wishes to you and your listeners. Thank you. So everyone is listening. Check out the show notes to get all the information for everything we talked about. I give it my highest recommendation. So thank you so much for tuning in and we will catch you on the next one. Stay healthy, everyone. Thank you.