Therapies to Reverse Aging & Live Longer. The Future of Anti-Aging Science With Paul Tozour. EP 001

00:00.00
smccain
Paul toser welcome to the first episode of the Stephen Mccain podcast and yeah I mean we met at radfest and very quickly I realized that you were probably the most interesting man.

00:06.51
Paul Tozour
Um, thanks so much Stephen great to be here.

00:19.21
smccain
Had met in the biohacking space and so you know we talked about oh you know I've been wanting to start this podcast and you'd be a great you know person to kind of kick this off because you're doing some some things that are when you go to these conferences and you look at the the. Speakers you go? Okay, this is awesome couple years five years but it's still kind of like flying cars to some people right? You're you're actually you know doing these things. So let's start a little bit with tell me about your background and how you got even involved in this whole space.

00:42.81
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

00:56.67
Paul Tozour
Yeah, so um, by the way I just want to start your talk at radfest this year was completely awesome I you know, definitely encourage anybody listening to you know, check out the archived radfest 2022 videos awesome talk on the importance of exercise in aging.

01:01.66
smccain
Now. Thanks.

01:12.91
smccain
Well thank you I Appreciate that.

01:14.23
Paul Tozour
Um, so it was it was really really awesome. So I I was in the video game industry for almost thirty years completely burned myself out on many occasions. Um I have to say you know my health has been up and down. Um I was a weekend warrior a lot of times. Ah. I focused on upper body resistance training workouts but didn't do enough cardio I skipped leg day way too much. My diet was was pretty poor honestly in my twenty s and thirty s and and early 40 s got to a point around the age of 47 I'm I'm currently 50 where um I sort of had my Dave Asprey moment where I realized hey being in software development is killing me I'm not taking good care of my health and I need to do a one eighty and just do absolutely everything I can to make the next fifty years of my life as healthy as I possibly can.

02:05.52
smccain
Yeah I think we all and everyone that's kind of an evangelist or really partakes in the space. We've all had that moment and I remember mine. It was you know like I remember thinking I have to literally. Um, fighting for my existence. You know my my habits have gotten the best of me and and um, you know careers can we can get so sucked into those things and they can just wreak havoc on us and.

02:23.50
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

02:30.75
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

02:33.97
smccain
So I mean to me you know I'm always in the ball I like the mindset and how people think I mean was there like a a moment that you had that you can like recall where you're like I have to do something like you know what I mean was it like a dark moment or was it just like a light bulb went off.

02:45.53
Paul Tozour
Ah, yeah, you know there were there were a lot of moments burnout is a huge thing in the video game industry. There's ah a real crunch culture of people working seventy or eighty hour weeks and pulling all nighters and so I had a lot of those kind of moments. Um. But you know I finally got to a point in 2018 where I realized you know it's time for me to um, just move in a totally different direction started learning everything I could about health and longevity and realized you know anti-aging is it is this incredible moment in history where suddenly it's getting real results. And you're never going to hear about this in the mainstream media because they don't know what's happening they don't understand it. They don't know how to report on it and um, fifteen years ago Twenty years ago you know the longevity industry was ah longevity researchers but just sort of sitting around going. Okay, how do we even begin to tackle this problem. We don't know and since then. They've gone toward. You know, building theories and being able to test those theories and get a lot of tremendous results and I want to talk about some of those and so for me, it was like hey you know I can actually start to dig into what's happening here I'm smart enough I can figure it out and ah.

03:45.46
smccain
Yeah.

03:55.95
Paul Tozour
Really start to move the needle on a lot of these things.

03:57.69
smccain
Yeah, and and we're definitely going to be talking about these these things you've done and what's interesting to me is like you know every year now that you go to these conferences like every passing year. It seems like we've gotten exponentially closer to doing something.

04:11.96
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

04:16.83
smccain
Miraculous with curing aging and it's it's getting to the point we're like oh my God This is happening like this is legitimately going to happen.

04:24.28
Paul Tozour
It really is it really is and radfest this year was a real turning point for me I mean when I went to the previous radfest I think it was 2019 um, you know I definitely felt like okay this is starting to get somewhere but this year was just overwhelming the number of things that are showing actual results and. Showing that you know a lot of these theories of aging that the researchers have put together are being validated and we now know how to intervene in a lot of them and there are a lot of things that ordinary people like you and me can just start doing right now.

04:50.50
smccain
Yeah, yeah.

04:57.68
smccain
Yeah, well let's talk about some of the extraordinary things you've done because I I still think you know, um you know this stuff is is you know look when most people get started in this. It's like okay I'm taking some supplements I tweak my diet you know I try and you know start testing it.

05:00.17
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

05:14.56
smccain
And I change my workout I Maybe do some advanced protocols I try some things like blood flow restriction I improve my sleep I track it you know I Clean up all my personal care products and you know and then there's and then you get into hormones maybe in peptides and and some of these agents of change. But then there's the next level.

05:32.89
Paul Tozour
Um, yep.

05:33.10
smccain
This is the stuff that we're about to get into so let's let's talk about you've done 3 things so far. Um, why don't you just lead us into the first one you've done or.

05:44.34
Paul Tozour
Yeah, so yeah, so so to what you were saying you know I'm certainly doing all of those things I do resistance training on an arx four out of five days week I do sauna I've got a supplement routine. Ah, that's optimized like crazy. Um. Optimize my sleep all that foundational stuff is super important as you say but I think it's not going to give you even in the best case more than maybe fifteen or twenty years of an additional healthy lifespan beyond what you would get normally and I'm really interested in this in what are the things that are going to give you more than those 20 years right

06:16.00
smccain
Yeah, yeah, so.

06:17.90
Paul Tozour
The motto is you know if you want extraordinary results you have to do extraordinary things right? You're not just going to be able to do normal things and get extraordinary results. So ah, three things that I really want to talk about today. Um.

06:33.21
Paul Tozour
There are two gene therapies on mice that have dramatically extended mouse lifespan ah scientists have found 41% mouse lifespan extension with telomerase gene therapy 36% mouse lifespan extension with Foostatin Gene therapy both of those are things that I am doing in 2 different ways or that I've done over the last two years and they also both have really interesting secondary effects. Um beyond what you would normally expect from those gene therapies and the third one that I want to talk about is therapeutic plasma exchange which is essentially. Replacing your blood plasma not the red and white blood cells or platelets or any of that just the plasma and that is showing extraordinary rejuvenation effects in both mice and humans.

07:22.29
smccain
Okay, and so you've done all of this in ah you know in a span of how long. Okay, Wow. So.

07:26.18
Paul Tozour
Ah, since March of last year I did the yeah I did telomerase gene therapy in March of last year and then in October I did both the therapeutic plasma exchange and then a week later I did a certain form of Foostatin Gene therapy

07:44.60
smccain
Wow. Well let's dive into these because let let's start with the telomerase because you know for the listeners. You know of this it Maybe me don't know what a teelomere is or what telomerase is um, maybe you could kind of explain.

07:46.16
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

07:55.45
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

07:59.78
smccain
Ah, what it is and why you did it and kind of the process.

08:03.53
Paul Tozour
Yeah, so um, essentially ah your Dna is packaged into these long chromosomes and at the ends of your chromosomes are these little shoelacce tips. Ah when you're a baby when you're when you're just born super super long and every time your cells divide. They get a little shorter just because every time a cell divides. It can copy one less telomere and so by the time you get to be a teenager. There's something like half the length that you that they were when you were an infant or a third of the length and then they keep getting shorter and shorter over time. And that becomes really really dangerous because once it gets to 0 bad stuff starts to happen. Um, ideally the cell just dies and gets garbage collected by the immune system but it can potentially turn into a ah senescent cell which just sits and produces inflammatory chemicals forever until you. Take action to get rid of it. Um, now for me the impetus to actually get this therapy was I did a couple of telomerase ah tests I'm sorry telomere length tests. Ah one I think was at the end of Twenty twenty and the other one was at at the beginning of 2021 um, just wanted to know how long my telomeres were so it was very interesting because I had two separate tests from so 2 different vendors one was life life ta t the other was was spectre cell both of them were totally consistent and they both said your telomeres are so short they almost don't exist I was.

09:33.96
Paul Tozour
At the bottom 1% of the population. 1 of the things about telomeres that they don't just get shorter when your cells divide but the more stress you're under the faster they shrink and it's very very hard to make them any longer and because of all the stress I think that I was in in the game industry. In my twenty s and 30 s and early forty s they were just super super crazy short. So I looked at those 2 tests and I said okay, it's the verdict is unanimous I'm in deep trouble here. This is going to be my achilles heel for aging unless I do something about this right away now I had tried every telomere lengthening supplement known to man.

10:06.13
smccain
Yeah, um I mean.

10:11.76
Paul Tozour
None of it made any difference right? Um, but yeah I tried this special one from Bill Andrews called defy time. Um, yeah geez I don't yeah I also tried t a 65 a bunch of others astragaus. Um, yeah.

10:12.53
smccain
Which which ones just did you try I don't mean to derail you. But yeah.

10:20.97
smccain
T a 65

10:31.15
Paul Tozour
And none of them made any difference for me.

10:31.80
smccain
So yeah, yeah've I've used um often on the stragolist iv I think it's a one four 1 5 um kind of a ah it's a generic version of TA 65 but you could find if you if you kind of knew what you were looking for and.

10:38.87
Paul Tozour
E.

10:49.18
smccain
I've heard I think I heard that bill Andrews has said it's not like they're going to those supplements aren't going to lengthen your telomeres but they're going to maybe help preserve some of it potentially during stressful moments and granted I'm not quoting him but like that that maybe you can stall.

10:58.66
Paul Tozour
Right? right? yeah.

11:07.27
smccain
A little bit of the atrophy of the telomeres.

11:08.17
Paul Tozour
Yeah, yeah, and and that's a possibility and it could just be that. That's what they do and because my telomeres were already so close to 0 that I didn't see any effect from them personally and I'm just a sample size of 1 so I can't say for sure that supplements don't work. All I can say is that I personally didn't see any effect at all from the supplements. Yeah.

11:27.31
smccain
Yeah, okay so you have this? ah basically biologic emergency that you've come across and so yeah, and so that.

11:32.45
Paul Tozour
Exactly yeah and it's like if I don't fix this something. Bad's going to happen I don't know what but the next fifty years are going to suck if I don't fix this right away and the only yeah, the only thing I knew of that could really extend telomere length.

11:41.20
smccain
Yeah, and I don't go ahead. Go ahead.

11:51.78
Paul Tozour
Was gene therapy because I'd gone to radfest in 2019 ah I saw an amazing talk by Liz Parish who is the Ceo of bioviva talking about this therapy that her own company had developed and she herself had taken that showed significant year on year extension of her telomeres. So bioviva works with a company called ah integrated health system. We'll have a link in the show notes. Um, but they do the actual gene therapy in a clinic in Mexico and so I got in touch with integrated health systems. It is an extremely expensive therapy. Just to let you know much more expensive than anything else I'm going to be talking about today. Ah hopefully the price is going to come down soon. Yeah, well let me just say it was 6 figures so a lot of money and not the kind of money that I really would spend if I didn't feel it was.

12:34.57
smccain
Are you comfortable sharing how much it was Okay, yeah.

12:47.11
smccain
Yeah, well this is like the this is your bottleneck right? I mean it's kind of interesting because it it brings up a philosophical sort of idea of like how much is my life worth to me right? I'm sure you you kind of made that calculation in your head. But I mean.

12:47.70
Paul Tozour
Extremely important. Um, yeah.

12:57.40
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

13:04.25
smccain
Granted, yes, 6 figures is beyond most people probably listening to this that they're willing willing to spin but yet it's it's it's the fact that you're blazing a trail for all of us that eventually as these things come down. You know we're going to sort of say hey we've got people. We know people that have done this. They've tested it. They've seen their telomeres increase over time and so ah.

13:23.31
Paul Tozour
Yeah, and there are a lot of people that would think absolutely nothing of spending 6 figures on a Ferrari or or a lamborghini or whatever. But then when it comes to their own bodies. They don't put in nearly the same investment and and why is that if you can afford. Yeah, if you can afford a lambo.

13:36.25
smccain
That's ah, that's a fantastic point I And now you yeah and I I use an example of that. But I always use like look everyone can afford an iphone somehow you bought the the latest iphone but you know yet doing a ah a blood panel or.

13:41.40
Paul Tozour
You can afford to upgrade your body.

13:53.94
smccain
Doing some you know getting yourself a sauna for crying out loud. You know which has immense effects you know for your life. Um, people you know it's a harder sell. So anyways. Okay, so you decide to do this thing you decide that the you research it you find um about it in radfest.

14:01.20
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

14:12.67
smccain
You mentally have gotten to cross a bridge where you say look I'm going to do this and then so what is the process you went down to Mexico.

14:17.99
Paul Tozour
Yeah, essentially I drove down to laredo walked across the border to nuevo laredo they had a driver pick me up in Newevo Laredo drive me to Monterey stayed in a nice hotel in Monterey next morning the same driver takes me to a clinic Basically they just put an iv in my arm. The whole thing lasted about 20 minutes um and you know it's very very simple. Didn't feel any immediate effects. Um, honestly, the hardest part of that therapy was they had me on prednizone to lower my immune system at the time.

14:48.60
smccain
Oh interesting. So.

14:51.10
Paul Tozour
Ah, which you know prednizone is you know immune system suppressant I don't think they're still doing this if I seem to recall I think Dr Sewell of of ihs was saying that they've switched away from doing this but ah the prednozone made me super hungry and sweaty and made it impossible to sleep and so. I'm sitting in that hotel hotel room ordering at omlet at three o'clock in the morning and it's just it was it wast that was an awful feeling but the therapy itself was was fine right? It was no problem at all. Yeah, yeah, it was totally anti-climatic so I just have this I v bag stuck in my arm for 20 minutes

15:12.63
smccain
Um, did yeah, did it feel almost anti-climatic like oh my god I just been 6 figures for 15 minutes

15:27.27
Paul Tozour
You know, just like doing a you know a blood drawer or whatever. Not really not painful I'm used to getting needles stuck in my arms. Um, and so apparently what happens there is they have this ah a a v this a Dino associated virus. It's essentially a virus that cannot replicate. Um. It's just there to transmit this Dna into your cells and it doesn't it goes into your nucleus but it doesn't actually integrate with your chromosomes. It just sits there next to your chromosomes and gets transcribed as if it were an extra chromosome.

15:58.39
smccain
Interesting.

16:00.71
Paul Tozour
And the particular one that they gave me was H Turk human telomerase reverse transcriptase which just generates telomerase and that telomerase then goes and makes your telomeres longer now. The cool thing is that I've been able to prove that this therapy worked. Ah, in terms of it absolutely made my telomeres longer I did the same pair of ah tests. Ah, after within a year after getting this treatment done by the same 2 vendors life length t t t and spectre cell and both of them showed. Totally consistent rates of telomere growth. So to me that's incredible and you probably saw Liz Parish's talk at ah, radfest 22 that 2022 this year she had this one awesome slide where she just showed this bar chart and showed here's my telomeres. Ah when i. Took my own therapy ten years ago and here they get a little longer two years later a little longer two years later and they just keep getting longer. That's incredible if you understand the implications of that because. That does not happen for a normal human. It's like she's defying the laws of of biology there by doing that. It's an incredible thing to think and so in theory I should be somewhere close to the second bar on her slide where I've gone from having these super short telomeres to having.

17:08.69
smccain
Wall.

17:19.96
Paul Tozour
Well I've gone from the bottom 1% of the population for my age group to around the bottom 35% in a year and a half

17:25.39
smccain
Wow. So and that thing is just most likely going to keep improving right? because as you age, you're going to be moving into a higher percentile bracket because you.

17:30.12
Paul Tozour
Yeah, yeah, and and certainly Liz Parrish's own diagram shows continuous improvement now she has gotten her therapy done a second time since then so who knows if it only lasts 5 years or 10 years or 15 or whatever. Ah, but in theory these continue to to remain in your cells and make your telomeres longer and so you know this is super exciting because in theory it should protect your cells from a lot of damage. Ah it should be protected from cancer. Also. Bill Andrews had an awesome talk just after Liz Parish's talk where he basically said the hay flick limit um prevents humans from living past 120 and the reason for that is because of your telomeres because of telomere shortening. It's just a fundamental biological law that you cannot live past 120 so you know I'm not making any predictions here I'm not saying that I'm going to live past 120 but in theory now that Liz parish and I and who any of her other clients have gotten this gene therapy we should if we keep ourselves healthy in every other way at least have a shot of living past 120.

18:42.42
smccain
Um, yeah I mean if you think about it with the hay flick limit. It's it's sort of like all the stuff you do for longevity is capped on this one particular issue this telomere issue So it's almost like if you.

18:53.41
Paul Tozour
Um, yep.

18:58.42
smccain
Because look I always you know I focus a lot on health span like I you know I want to be not only a hundred year old person but I want to be 100 year old person that can work out and and be active but you know when you start really making ah a push into longevity. You have to sort of say to yourself and I guess you didn't this like hey. You know there's a cap there and I have to you know, essentially bust through that or theoretically bust through it and then everything else that I'm doing for longevity will follow up into that.

19:31.71
Paul Tozour
Absolutely and you have to understand you know it's ah it's hard for people to to wrap their heads around aging is many several different things. We've got a really good sense of what they are now. There's the 9 hallmarks of aging. Um, but they're. Different people have different risks in different areas depending on their their level of health and how much fitness they do in their diet and their chronological age and all these other things right? and so certain interventions might be more useful to you at 50 certain might be more useful at 70 certain of them might be more useful at 90 and it's just a matter of unless you address all these 9 hallmarks of aging. You're not really going to have a shot at moving a very long time.

20:09.18
smccain
Yeah, who who because you know it's I've seen the the different pathways of aging defined many different ways I think um, who's a guy fromens sends. Ah yeah, umbra I think he had 7 right.

20:19.50
Paul Tozour
um aubrey de gray ah yeah um I thought it was nine but it could be 7 I can't remember off the top of my head.

20:26.73
smccain
Yeah, and and it could be 9 as well. I I just I thought it was 7 but you know and it's been. That's what's so interesting about these these conferences we go to like you see all these people that focus on 1 pathway and then they come up with something like this you know like what you've done you know? um.

20:34.39
Paul Tozour
Yeah, yeah, and people want to be able to boil it down to 1 thing this 1 thing senolytics are the cure for aging or proteostasis is is the cure for aging but none of those things individually is enough.

20:49.30
smccain
Yeah, it's multifactorial for sure and there's downstream effects of things. So a lot of times. It's like what's the master switch here. What is how do we and I and this is what to me separates a lot of the beginners from the people that are seasoned in the spaces at.

20:52.60
Paul Tozour
Yeah.

21:08.27
smccain
A lot of people can be focusing on this like bottom or Mid- area and then someone goes look all you got to do is this and then you get that? Automatically, it's it's a it's a greater Lever you know and you get this and this and this and this and this and this you know so I you know a lot of times I will I will call up somebody who is you know I know is.

21:13.76
Paul Tozour
Um, right.

21:19.96
Paul Tozour
Um, right.

21:28.90
smccain
Far more um, intelligent in and a certain field and I'll say what do you think of this because I'm you know I'm considering it and it does this. They're like well yes, but why would you do it that way. It's so much easier to do it this way and you know but look this is fascinating and I mean obviously I think anyone listening can.

21:38.64
Paul Tozour
Right? yeah.

21:47.82
smccain
Can probably. There's a sticker shock. You know there's the price and then there's also oh my God This is a gene therapy and you know, but when you actually start talking about it and you say hey look here's where I was and here's where I am and here's where how it's trending you start actually going.

22:01.41
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, Liz Parish has reported that she's seen about a growth in her telomere length of about point zero three five

22:06.78
smccain
Um, you know like this actually makes a lot of sense right.

22:18.15
Paul Tozour
Kilobases per year I've actually seen one point Seventeen kilobases per year so far. So mine seemed to be growing a lot faster even though it's the same therapy that she got so I I can't account for that discrepancy. Maybe it's because mine were so much shorter than hers to begin with.

22:21.43
smccain
Interesting. So your body was like interesting.

22:33.99
Paul Tozour
Um, but you know she's amazing, incredible scientist and she's one year older than me and she looks like she's in her 30 s super healthy. It's it's just amazing. You know and I talked to some ah longevity scientists gerontology researchers whatever you want to call them that say that oh telomers are important. We already know that the important things for aging are. Stem cells or senolytics and what have you and well that's not really the case because you know first of all, you know as as I was I mentioned Bill Andrews talk you know he made it very clear. You cannot live past 120 unless you do something about your telomeres. Um, also telomerase has a ton of other functions. Um. It has a lot of secondary effects besides making telomeres longer. It has a protective role in neurons um bioviva has this dementia gene therapy where they inject a gene therapy that generates cloho and telomerase and they found that telomerase makes the treatment much more effective. Even though you know your neurons are not dividing. Um it upgrades upregulates vgf expression it reduces Dna damage it protects Mitochondria so there's all of these known additional functions of telomerase besides just making telomeres longer. That say this is probably very ger protective.

23:50.73
smccain
Yeah I mean look before we you know wrap this one up and move on to the next one I just want to say or ask you did you have you noticed anything or is it hard to maybe if you have noticed something how much time did you have before you even did the next thing which maybe that made you.

24:04.77
Paul Tozour
Yeah, this is yeah this is always a ah difficult question to ask ah on the one hand I can't point to anything that got dramatically better except possibly my kidney egfr function according to my blood test that did improve dramatically. Last year but also you know last year was a really rough year for me my mother passed away about six weeks after I got this gene therapy. Ah it was just super difficult for that reason and for a lot of other reasons. Um, and so because of all that chaos I can't really say exactly what the other effects of this. Gene therapy work.

24:41.90
smccain
And yeah, sorry to hear about your mother. Um, let's move on to the the plasma exchange because this one kind of intrigues me I'm I'm I'm very interested in in understanding and learning about this and hearing about the way.

24:48.63
Paul Tozour
Yeah.

24:58.86
smccain
Exactly what the it entails So tell us a little bit about this therapeutic Plasma exchange.

25:04.63
Paul Tozour
Yeah, so um, there are a couple of researchers who have been doing incredible work on therapeutic plasma exchange Dr Doberry Keeprov and doctors irena and Michael Convoy um they've done experiments on mice for a long time. Ah. And there was always a lot of questions about ah you know they knew that there was some sort of effect if you hooked the bloodstream of young mice and old mice together and is that because the young mouse blood is going into the old mouse or is it because you're taking the blood out of the old mouse and putting it into the young mouse. Right? Which one is causing the rejuvenation because you put in you lock the the bloodstreams of an old mouse and a young mouse together. It's called hetero chronic parabiosis and the 2 mice sort of get closer together in age but the more research they've done the more they found that what really really matters is getting. Blood out of the old Mouse. It's not that a young but mouse's blood has these magic rejuvenation factors. It probably has some but it's much more important that there are factors in an older mouse for an older person's blood that are actually stopping the body from regenerating itself and all you need to do is take those out.

26:15.26
smccain
Interesting. So it's almost like just having almost like a dirty blood where you have like but proteins that aren't working. They're not folding. They're you know like you have these things that are just clogging up the system almost.

26:16.11
Paul Tozour
So um.

26:29.74
Paul Tozour
That's exactly what it is exactly what it is so Dr Irena Convoy ah did an amazing study I think it came out earlier this year. She found that there are 72 proteins associated with age. Um and she was able to put together essentially an aging clock based on those proteins. And she also found that you know it has very similar results in humans to the way it works in mice so where it seems to work equally well in humans and it's incredible to see if you read her paper. You know she shows this this chart of these 72 age associated. Proteins and she can take people in their sixty s seventy s and 80 s and after 5 treatments of therapeutic plasma exchange the protein profiles of these seventy and eighty year old people suddenly are are almost identical indistinguishable from people in their twenty s and thirty s it's unbelievable.

27:20.25
smccain
Wow.

27:24.40
Paul Tozour
So Now you have to ask okay are proteins. The entire story is that the only thing definitely not I'm sure there's a lot more to it. But it's also clear that it has profound effects on rejuvenation and and she also found that it has. Profound effects on the Immune system and seems to be regenerating the the Immune system in these older patients.

27:42.80
smccain
Yeah I mean I think ah you know I've I've seen her talk and she talks about you know that it's not so much that the body breaks down but that we just don't regenerate anymore and then what happens is because we're not regenerating the old damaged.

27:54.80
Paul Tozour
Right.

28:00.20
smccain
Sort of structures of the body aren't um, allowing you know they're not allowing regeneration to happen as well. It's like this feedback loop right? So it's like you can't regenerate the old tissue doesn't have the the faculties to regenerate.

28:11.54
Paul Tozour
Yep.

28:15.16
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

28:18.80
smccain
You know it's it's atrophying and so you you just get in this exponential decline right.

28:21.25
Paul Tozour
Yes, that's exactly it and and the thing to remember is a cell doesn't know how old it is. It doesn't know that it's an old cell. It just knows I'm a cell and what's actually making it old seems to be the environment. It's these proteins in the bloodstream that are telling it I'm in the body of an 80 year old person and if you. Change what's in the blood you can allow that cell to rejuvenate itself again and the fact that they've been able to identify a lot of these proteins like Tlr 4 and p sixteen and p twenty one senescence-assod proteins and start to understand how they are blocking the body from rejuvenating itself and all you need to do.

28:43.79
smccain
Interesting.

28:59.67
Paul Tozour
To get rid of them is essentially wash out the blood. So when you get a therapeutic plasic change procedure. Essentially you've got a needle stuck in one arm and another needle stuck in the in the other arm and they drain the blood out of one arm. It goes through a plasma feresis machine and that separates out all the platelets in the red and white blood cells. And then in the other arm they inject essentially salient solution plus albumin albumbiminin is a critical component of blood. It's a key antioxidant and you've got to make sure that you've got you know at least. Around 5% albummen when it goes back in and so then they mix that essentially artificial blood with all of your red white blood cells and your and your platelets and so on they do that for about 70% of your total blood plasma and so I got mine done at the Maxwell Clinic in Nashville Tennessee in October I had 2 treatments one was on a Tuesday and one was on a Thursday each one replaced about 70% of my blood plasma. So the total amount of plasma that got replaced was about 90 now immediately after I got this therapy. I got to say I had the best sleep of my life I felt a little tired but honestly kind of amazing. It felt like a lot of the crap that had accumulated in my body over the last fifty years was just suddenly gone. It's a really hard feeling to describe and it's really rare that I do some sort of treatment other than exercise.

30:27.21
Paul Tozour
And I notice an immediate biological effect. But here I really did and so I had awesome sleep for about five days after the first treatment and so here's an amazing thing. Um epigenetic age. Um.

30:42.83
Paul Tozour
1 of the best biomarkers for aging that we currently have is what's known as an epigenetic age test. Um, essentially epigenetics is all of the different methyl markers on your Dna methyl groups and acetyl groups and all sorts of stuff like that. There's different regions of your Dna that are designed to be. Decorated with these different molecules. A guy named Steve Horvath about fifteen or twenty years ago invented this thing called the Horvath clock that very accurately could measure someone's biological age by measuring certain methylmethyl groups and then combining them mathematically in the right way and you could estimate. Someone's a biological age give or take 2 years with very high accuracy since then a lot of additional epigenetic clots have been developed but the best 1 we know of is from a company called true diagnostic they look at literally thousands of epigenetic markers. And so that is pretty pretty much considered the gold standard in epigenetic clocks. Um, a lot of longevity researchers would say we don't have any good epigenetic clocks. None of them are accurate and yes, that's true, technically. But also this is the closest thing we have and it's pretty darn accurate. Overall. Now what I found which was really amazing. Um, my epigenetic age now I should also add epigenetic age is pretty hard to reverse. Um, for most people. It's pretty close to their actual biological age.

32:10.54
Paul Tozour
I remember hearing about Greg Fahey's trim trial a couple years ago I think that was radfest 2019 I heard about that. Um, and they were in addition to rejuvenating the thymus they were able to reverse people's epigenetic age by like four or five years on average and at the time that was like holy cow. This is groundbreaking. We've reversed epigenetic age four or five years and a whole cohort of people with this one set of therapies and at the time I was blown away by that. Ah, but what I found was when I did these 2 therapeutic plasma exchange therapies. My own true diagnostic epigenetic age estimate went down 9 years in nine days yes

32:54.67
smccain
Wow. Wow! That's amazing I've done the true diagnostic test and I did it years ago when it first came out and maybe it was during covid almost I forget because I um I was so impressed I got a call from um, what's his name that super. Young kid he was like a wizard. He was really um god he used to do all this stuff on peptides from tailormade I forget doesn't doesn't matter but I had a good conversation I did the test and I was I must say I was a little disappointing because I thought like I'm going to come in like way blow it and you know and and.

33:16.76
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah I'm not sure.

33:29.96
smccain
I was like okay and um, but it's it I mean it's It's one of those things that you know for what you're doing where you're really moving the needle like that test is is. It's probably very inspiring. To see that test move because like you said I don't think it's that easy to to move the the mark on that stuff stuff.

33:46.84
Paul Tozour
Yes, yeah, it's incredibly difficult to change your your epigenetic age and for me seeing 9 years of age reversal epigenetic age reversal according to this estimate within just nine calendar days was absolutely blew my mind and so. Really curious to see what the two month followup is Maxwell Clinic told me that they usually see 6 or seven years of epigenetic age reversal within two months after the first set of treatments which by itself is incredible. But I've already beaten up by 2 years in a week and so who knows what the two month follow-up is going to be.

34:24.51
smccain
Ah, yeah, okay.

34:24.98
Paul Tozour
By the way before we go any further I forgot to do the disclaimers at the beginning. So I got to do those. These are all experimental treatments. None of this is medical advice I'm not a medical professional, not encouraging anyone to try any of these and interventions. This is all for educational purposes only and please do your own research. And consult with your primary care physician before undertaking any of these therapies or any other therapies so had to get that out of the way.

34:52.21
smccain
Yeah, yeah, we probably should have led with that. But I think that look it's almost the disclaimer almost speaks for itself kind of for what we're talking about. But thank you for that and um, so so how many of these are you doing you're doing 5 of them.

34:58.13
Paul Tozour
Yeah.

35:07.41
Paul Tozour
I'm doing a total of 8 basically I was talking to to Maxwell Clinic about my reasons for wanting to do this so they suggested the way they do it is they do 2 therapeutic plasma exchange treatments within a single week. Separated by at least 48 hours and apparently the reason for this is you know they do the first treatment and then they want your cells to be able to exchange their intracellular fluid with your blood plasma and so they want 48 hours for that and so my first treatment was on a Tuesday and a Thursday back in early october um going to be doing it again in january again on a tuesday and thursday and then ah, a third pair of treatments two three months after that and then a fourth pair of treatments three months after that. So a total of 8 treatments. So yeah, so it takes about 4 hours

35:51.55
smccain
Um, wow and how long does 1 treatment last or take how long does it take.

35:59.42
Paul Tozour
And that does make it a bit challenging because you're you're sitting in a chair and you do not drink want to drink a lot of water before you sit in that chair and you know thankfully I've been able to do it without having to cause any inconveniences but you know 4 hours is a long time to be sitting in a chair and it's not easy.

36:06.41
smccain
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

36:15.49
smccain
Yeah, but you know if if this one has that paunch where you feel good afterwards. You know that's like an added bonus because some things you do and you're like oh they're working but I don't necessarily feel it because it's like watching my fingernails grow. It's like I'm not going to notice it if I just sit and watch my fingernails all day right? So they're actually just.

36:26.66
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

36:35.62
smccain
Deluding your blood right? They're just.

36:37.30
Paul Tozour
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, they're they're essentially just diluting your your blood plasma ah 70% gets diluted with each treatment. They also did give me a treatment of exosomes at the very end of the second treatment which probably helped that probably had some part in the.

36:47.51
smccain
Oh.

36:54.35
Paul Tozour
Epigenetic age reversal that I saw um they also have you on some supplements before your first treatment just to minimize potential side effects and they also inject you with things like a little bit of ah Zinc and magnesium and and things like that. Um. I don't I don't remember exactly what but but basic vitamins and stuff like that they sent me a whole list of like yeah we inject a very small amount of these things just to reduce the risk of side effects during the therapy.

37:19.51
smccain
Yeah, and about how much is this this therapy.

37:24.91
Paul Tozour
Um, it's $4500 just under $4500 per treatment.

37:27.82
smccain
Okay, so that that one's a little bit more approachable. Yeah, do you know of like people that are doing that I mean because I imagine like I thought about you before we had this talk and I thought it must be.

37:30.16
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah, yeah, it's it's expensive, but it's worth it.

37:45.41
smccain
And must be difficult for you to walk around and relate or people to relate to you because I know even just me like someone who's like a health enthusiast and a biohacker like you have to go to conferences to meet people like you.

37:49.64
Paul Tozour
Yeah.

37:57.92
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

38:00.92
smccain
But even you go to conferences and probably don't meet people like you right? I mean.

38:03.26
Paul Tozour
Yeah, yeah, no, there are not too many people doing this I have met a couple I'm part of this gerontology research group and I know a few folks on there who are are starting to do plasma foresis but this this thing is just starting to take off and there's still clinical trials being done I know that. Dr. Dobri Keeprov is doing ah a clinical trial in Mill Valley California that even includes a control group to figure out what is the most effective regimen for human rejuvenation.

38:32.52
smccain
Yeah, Well I mean I'm I'm ah selfishly happy that you know we've got ah connected I mean look, you're a fantastic guy we hit I think we hit it off immediately. But I will be.. It'll be nice to sort of know that I can go hey. Want to try some stuff. This is what I'm noticing I need to work On.. What do you?? you know, like who will like send me some info on some stuff like you did even on the on these protocols you're doing.

38:49.50
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

38:56.25
Paul Tozour
Yeah, and one of the amazing things also with this therapeutic plasmics change treatment is they monitor your your blood biomarkers before and after every treatment and I've also been you know I get blood tests done once or twice a month and so I've seen. Really significant improvements in a lot of the just the basic blood biomarkers that you could get done at quest or Labcorp things like uric acid before the first treatment my uric acid level was seven point Five Milligrams per deciliter which is way too high I've been trying to lower it for like nine months nothing I did made any difference in my uric acid levels this was based on reading the book drop acid which I believe is written by ah I think it's David Perlmutter I can't quite remember um but anyway fantastic book but nothing I did would lower it and these two therapeutic plasm exchange treatments dropped it to 2.2.

39:47.91
smccain
Wow yeah, that's what we were talking about like what's the what's the bigger switch right? because you could probably spend a year trying to figure that 1 little problem out and then you just jumped up ahead of the the hierarchy. Yeah fantastic I mean you know that one seems like.

39:50.80
Paul Tozour
So problem solved instantly.

40:01.78
Paul Tozour
Um, right? yeah.

40:07.82
smccain
Um, you're not. You're really not putting a foreign agent in your body. You're just putting saline an album on right.

40:12.56
Paul Tozour
Yes, your your blood already has is like close to 5% album and so all you're doing is putting in albummen to replace the albumin that you've lost along with other trace minerals that are already in your body like zinc and magnesium.

40:27.13
smccain
Yeah I would I mean I would imagine I would imagine that one could come down in price like pretty easily I mean I could I could see that being offered at like a next health clinic. You know, do you know those those places.

40:31.54
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

40:41.28
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard of those. Yeah.

40:45.36
smccain
Yeah, they you know they I live you know I live in L A and you know you have all these like places that pop up that are like the next health you know type thing and um I went there for some tests you know a little bit but you know I'm happy to see these places you know pop up because it's. You know there's um, now a market for this stuff and people are clueing into it and we need that so that the the competition drives the price down and and because I I.

41:07.58
Paul Tozour
And the great thing about this is you know it relies totally on off-the-shelf components. There's no new technologies in here. Everything involved in the procedure has been just a core part of standard medical science for decades. Right? Plasma foressis machines. It's off-thehelf equipment. This procedure is Fda approved for a number of conditions. So it's not anything new here. It's just that we're now finding out that this has these powerful rejuvenation effects.

41:32.47
smccain
Yeah I mean a nurse could probably do this to herself if she looked at the research and and you know had the the machine next to her you know? Yeah fantastic. Well let's let's move into your the third therapy you've done and this is a fallostatin.

41:36.50
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah, absolutely.

41:51.61
smccain
Plasma Therapy right? and.

41:52.72
Paul Tozour
Yeah, so I mentioned at the beginning that there was 36% mouse lifespan extension with Foostatin Gene therapy um now foostatin. You know you're a a fitness guru and you know all about foostatin right? so.

42:08.76
Paul Tozour
Foostatin is best known for blocking myostatin your muscles basically have this protein called myostatin and its whole purpose in life is to keep your your body from spending too much resources on building big muscles. Um, and phalostatin temporarily blocks the myostatin. I remember seeing ah something like twenty years ago aha tv special on this 14 year old kid in Germany who was born with a condition where his body didn't generate enough myostatin and this kid was like absolute tank. He didn't even have to work out but he was like you know, baby Arnold Schwarzenegger just because his body was not producing a lot of myostatin and so his muscles never got the signal to stop growing. Um and now.

42:52.67
smccain
Yeah, we've I mean and cut you off. But I've I've seen and I've trained athletes and you know I've seen some some gymnast even and I'm like I remember they're rare but like you see these kids where you're like you are like a bodybuilder. Like you could should just go I told it's 1 kid like you should just go into bodybuilding like you you would would be so much easier for you and and I'm certain that he had some genetic propensity for for for blocking it. You know.

43:21.51
Paul Tozour
Yeah, yeah, yeah that that could very well be true. Um, one of the funny things about foostatin is that you can't just inject foostatin and and hope that you'll get good results because it has a super short half-life. Like if you inject foostatin in the morning I think the half-life is something like 3 or 4 hours I could be off a little bit there. But if you inject yourself with foostatin no matter how much you inject by the end of the day. It's pretty much gone from your system. So it's really not going to make a difference and you're going to get the benefits from. Chronically increasing the amount of foostatin to block that myostatin ah now there's a company called mini circlele based here in Austin um I met with the founder back in July and he told me about some of the incredible work that they're doing now. Mini circle essentially essentially makes ah plasmid therapy. They inject these ah little circles of Dna ah called plasmids into your fat cells and then those circles of Dna just encode for a certain protein. And then the cells generate that protein and the protein makes its way into the bloodstream. Um, not in the membrane. It's inside the cell. Yeah, so it's just a little circle of Dna.

44:28.97
smccain
So wait. It's it's it's working in the membrane to do this. It's inside the cell. Okay, okay.

44:41.53
Paul Tozour
And so that Dna goes inside your cell and just gets endlessly transcribed into this protein and pretty soon you know the cell is full of this protein and it makes its way out of the cell and into your bloodstream and so they'll inject you with I don't know a couple million a couple billion I don't know how many of these plasmids.

44:50.43
smccain
Got it? Okay, got it. Okay.

45:00.36
Paul Tozour
And those will over time raise your levels of whatever the the protein is that they've encoded for so they've got one for foostatin my understanding is they're they've also got an hiv therapy that like encodes for the actual h I antibody protein so that could be a cure for h iv. Which would be awesome. Um, it. Yeah, it's it's very very interesting and I now one big difference here is that unlike the therapy offered by integrated health systems. The telomerase therapy that I got in March of last year

45:19.77
smccain
But Wow this stuff is fascinating. What's happening. It's unbelievable.

45:37.95
Paul Tozour
This is a lot cheaper I was able to get in free in October because this is a clinical trial and you know talking with the founders. Their costs are super low I mean it's just maybe ten or twenty thousand bucks to actually generate all of these plasmids for for the entire cohort and so someday they're going to be able to offer it.

45:51.26
smccain
Wow.

45:57.84
Paul Tozour
To people for like 5 figures instead of 6 figures which is a huge difference. Um, but they're they're doing clinical testing right now these plasmids last in in your cells for about eighteen months they gradually degrade and it's also reversible.

46:00.50
smccain
Yeah, absolutely this is awesome.

46:14.60
Paul Tozour
So if you get their plasmid therapy and you suspect that oh I'm not comfortable with this or I think it's causing some side effect all you have to do is take either tetracycline or doxycycline and there's a built in kill switch and that'll just kill off all the plasmids. So yeah.

46:28.81
smccain
Well, that's that's a nice piece of of mind you know I mean hopefully you don't need that those antibiotics for something else right? But you know I remember hearing in um, reading um lifespan by David Sinclair and they had.

46:34.38
Paul Tozour
Yeah, yeah.

46:41.74
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah, great book.

46:46.15
smccain
They'd given a gene therapy to these mice and rolled them back in time aged them backwards and then they would give them like an antibiotic in order to turn it back to the other way so they could literally just go back and forth and I mean this was in 2019 and I was like this is this is unbelievable and.

46:54.92
Paul Tozour
Right.

47:02.40
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

47:05.52
smccain
So you're already seeing like um, a little piece of that just for like a specific thing that it seems like that what you're saying. It's not that expensive. So this seems like a nice sort of maybe vertical for for certain therapies.

47:11.89
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

47:17.54
Paul Tozour
Yeah, yeah, honestly, a ton of therapies I mean the the integrative Health system stuff is great because they can eventually target these their viruses viral vectors to certain tissues and say you know we want our foostatin only to go into muscles or things like that. But this plasma therapy. Is just orders of magnitude cheaper and so you know in the near term this I think this has a lot more potential for delivering a lot of these kinds of beneficial Gene therapies. Um, it's just amazing stuff.

47:47.23
smccain
yeah and I you know yeah and I imagine this is like really good for you know people that are starting to move into that sarcopenia you know time in their life where they they start losing a pound of muscle a year and um, it's it's.

47:55.19
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

48:04.78
smccain
It's expensive for the body to you know the body thinks. Okay, if I'm going to prioritize building muscle I may be giving up a little bit to my brain the resources or I may be giving up a little bit of of certain physical traits like speed or you know there's a there's a.

48:11.77
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

48:22.53
smccain
There's a lot to anyone that's put on size like for me like I've gone through like different times in my life where I like I'm going to put on a lot of muscle the cost of maintaining and keeping that muscle is significant in terms of the nutrients and you know everything that has to be.

48:37.86
Paul Tozour
Um, death.

48:41.86
smccain
Done to keep it too so to kind of tweak this at a certain time in your age where you're also worried about losing bone Mineral Density I'm sure keeping strong muscles because the the weaker your your your body won't build muscles. That are stronger than your bones can handle right? like those things are mechanisms are kind of already hardwired in there. So I would imagine that you're getting bone mineral and density keeping it and then you're ah keeping precious muscle on your body which is staving off frailty I mean you look at everybody that gets in there.

48:58.11
Paul Tozour
Right.

49:08.94
Paul Tozour
Yep.

49:17.50
smccain
When they start getting in their sixty s especially 70 s and when that starts you can see their frame starting to like become very fragile and if you want to be active in your Seventy s you want to be you want to have muscle and you want to have bone mineral density. Right? Yeah yeah.

49:37.22
Paul Tozour
Absolutely muscle save muscle saves lives absolutely um, yeah, and and ah a bunch of the people in the clinical trial with me in my cohort in October were older individuals who specifically were worried about sarcopenia right? 1 guy I remember just found out.

49:50.40
smccain
Yeah, yeah.

49:54.35
Paul Tozour
He'd been clinically diagnosed with Sarcopenia and so that's why he was there. Um, but essentially you know we we flew to roatton which is an island off the coast of Honduras and then next day went to a clinic on the island and just injected us in in the belly fat. Took about 5 minutes you know besides all the tests and stuff the actual injection you know is super fast. Um, yeah, and in theory they should pack on about what I was told was that the with the first cohort they saw saw an additional. Three and a half pounds of muscle mass and three and a half pounds of fat loss across the cohort on average personally I have not seen any changes in my muscle mass or my fat mass in the last two months based on dexa scans which which are very accurate. So I'm not seeing the results yet I'm hoping I will but the main reason I'm doing this.

50:40.62
smccain
Yeah.

50:46.56
Paul Tozour
Is more for the longevity than the body composition. Yes, yes so I have an airrix machine at home now I hit that four out of five days every week I'm seeing incredible strength gains. But other than first you know six weeks or so.

50:49.50
smccain
Yeah, have you been hitting up the ah Arx machine.

51:05.93
Paul Tozour
My Muscle mass gains have stalled out which is very confusing to me I don't I Really don't understand how I could be consistently gaining strength I'm up to 3% every time I do every exercise by not seeing improvements in muscle mass at this point. And in spite of a higher protein Intake. So currently I'm trying to debug what's going on there and why why is my mass stopped stopped out topped out when my strength is continuing to slowly rise.

51:24.10
smccain
Yeah I mean.

51:32.75
smccain
Yeah I mean for those of you don't know the Arx machine is ah an iso kinetic machine that allows you to do I think all 5 of the foundational movement patterns and so you you can set the endpoint and the out point and the time for the rep. The concentric and the ecentric so you can say I'm want a 5 second the 5 second concentric 5 second eccentric and then no matter how hard you push it will keep you on that track. No matter what? so as you're. You know you could even do it be doing a bench press and then just let go of the bars and things's not nothing's going to fall on you nothing it just stops in space and so this is like it's one of the most advanced ways and safest ways of building and and maintaining muscle I imagine what is. Happening from you know, just my what I think um with you is when you get stronger. So if you look at muscle so like phase one of muscle building is muscle endurance. So that's typically these ah low weight high reps. Now, you're you're actually building pathways to the muscle to to give more blood flow more oxygen like nutrients right? like you know building endurance then you move into the hypertrophy and that's going to be like that typical 10 rep range. That's when you start actually.

53:03.90
smccain
Putting on some size but ah, some a lot of that is sarcoplasmic. So it's fluid and so then when you start getting into this you know 1 to 5 rep range now you're moving into what's called maximal strength you you get muscles. But they're dense.

53:05.38
Paul Tozour
Um, right.

53:22.71
Paul Tozour
Right.

53:23.60
smccain
And they're hard but they're not going to necessarily be bigger like they were if you were in that like 8 to 12 range so that Arx you might play around with the protocols. It's that machine is kind of built for an all out effort. It's kind of maximal.

53:28.90
Paul Tozour
Right.

53:39.98
Paul Tozour
Yep.

53:42.10
smccain
But at the end of the day. The beauty of having those dense muscles is if you don't work out for two or three weeks you keep them the saroplasmic type stuff kind of dissipates. You always got to be pumping them up a little bit. You know so that's just.

53:46.58
Paul Tozour
Right. Right? Yeah I mean what I'm currently doing just to share my routine with you. A little bit is my routine was inspired by Carl Lenore who runs the super humanman radio podcaster on. He's an advanced powerlier. You know I know we're close to his level but essentially I'll do 5 reps.

54:01.38
smccain
And.

54:09.40
Paul Tozour
With 30 seconds in between to rest. Um, so every exercise 5 reps with 30 seconds just to recover so I can put the maximal amount of power into every single rep. So maybe I need to just do more reps.

54:20.69
smccain
Interesting. Well here's the thing when you the the other thing too is as you move into that that 1 to 5 rep range. You're now you're actually training the central nervous system more than you are training the the sort of ah. Muscle sort of pathways. You know you you are really taxing the central nervous system and so when you get into that range. Um, you need to rest longer between I would move more into 3 minutes of rest between those because.

54:48.65
Paul Tozour
Right.

54:54.47
Paul Tozour
Wow. Okay.

54:57.24
smccain
Yeah, because if you're going all out for 5 reps you're I mean you're really hitting that central nervous system. That's my opinion you know now the Arx might muddy the waters because it's like it's not.

55:02.65
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah, yeah.

55:12.42
smccain
Traditional weightlifting. It's it's got its own sort of the isoconetic component. The protocols might be a little different but I can tell you you know, typically when you're in the 8 and up or you know up 8 reps and up then you can run things more like a hit.

55:17.56
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

55:31.21
smccain
You can get in that 30 seconds you know when you start moving to 1 to 5 You are hitting that nervous system and you might find that you're gonna if you go home and you're like man I'm blown out I can't do anything you've blown out your central nervous system you know and those it needs longer to recover. That's like.

55:44.43
Paul Tozour
Um, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, thank you? That's awesome advice I need to experiment with that.

55:50.17
smccain
Power training. You know so you don't have to take my word for it. You can always like look it up online and kind of see that stuff you know.

55:59.78
Paul Tozour
Um, so I had a couple more things I wanted to get to on foostatin if I can if I can re just rewind to that. Yeah, so so foostatin you know there are a lot of different things in the body. Ah that.

56:00.95
smccain
Absolutely hit it. Do it? absolutely.

56:13.50
Paul Tozour
Start out high when you're young and gradually decline with age and foostatin. You know is one of them. You know fetus has a foostatin level of between 55 and sixty nanograms per milliliter. Um, by the time you're a teenager. It's I think in in the teens or or low twenty s and then by the time you become an adult. It's less than five nanograms per milliliter typically different for different people. So um, this therapy presumably ah based on the subjects they've tested so far should be raising foostatin to around 21 or twenty two nanograms per milliliter. You know, which should be enough for some you know pretty robust muscle growth. But ah just like telomerase foostatin has a bunch of secondary effects and it's you know it's important to remember those. It activates this transcription pathway called foxo three which is improves Dna repair.

56:50.83
smccain
Yeah.

57:05.95
Paul Tozour
Ah, maintains stem cells it improves your oxidative stress response and it's really good for Autophagy that is clearing out the junk inside yourselve.

57:13.32
smccain
Yeah, and yeah I think fuck So it's free. Nope go ahead.

57:16.40
Paul Tozour
And so that probably accounts for um, sorry it probably accounts for the massive life extension that you saw with mice I think 36% with full statin.

57:25.50
smccain
Yeah, and and I think that's what um, what sauna why sauna has those benefits because it supposedly turns on this foxo 3 if you're lucky enough to have you know some people it also depends if you have how much you have of that Fox O 3 right are you you know um if you have the the variance.

57:30.13
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah.

57:38.25
Paul Tozour
Are.

57:42.86
smccain
Um, man this has just been Ah I mean look I have to just say that I absolutely honor your you know commitment to keeping your biology on this planet. You know I mean that is it's really remarkable what you've done.

57:56.13
Paul Tozour
Um, thank you. Thank you? likewise.

58:02.68
smccain
Know things you know I mean when you you know like I said it can be shocking some of the stuff you're doing but then you know I mean I think it's it's cool I mean you you are you know and look you've busted your ass I'm sure to to get where you are and have the means to do this stuff. But you're making it a priority and I mean I think that you know you're really, you've you've got you've got a book in here or something right? I mean you're an author like tell us about your Book. You're doing.

58:34.74
Paul Tozour
Oh yeah, okay well well thanks for giving me an opportunity to plug my book I appreciate that so I was in video games for almost thirty years um fascinating industry and it's you know, changed dramatically since I got in in 1994 um

58:37.29
smccain
Of course.

58:50.85
Paul Tozour
My book is essentially a book about leadership. Yeah I in many ways is an opportunity for me to tell a lot of my stories of some of the crazy things that had happened to me or around me or to other developers that I know in the industry and put them all together in a really entertaining way. That's also going to teach a lot of lessons. About leadership culture and values and how really leaders not to spoil it for anybody but a leader's fundamental. Job is to understand what are your organization's values. How do those values build your culture and then how does that culture drive your outcomes and so. It really is the story of 4 Heroic video game developers doing the best they can to get good outcomes under difficult circumstances drawing that link for themselves but also showing you how that works in terms of the day to day of. All of the crazy office politics and all of the chaos that surrounds them so it should be out probably in February we're putting a ton of work into the audio book. We've got a cast of more than 35 professional voice actors who we splice their lines on top of my underlying narration.

59:46.78
smccain
Yeah.

59:58.82
smccain
Nice.

01:00:01.94
Paul Tozour
Yeah, yeah, and and I got to say it's turned out way beyond my expectations not to pat myself on the back too much here, but it should be out in in February or March if you're gonna buy it. Definitely encourage you to buy the audio book because it's just going to be a lot better than the paperback version when you get right down to it. Um, it's essentially an audio play and it's gonna be called.

01:00:16.20
smccain
Yeah, sounds like a like a ah audio play right.

01:00:21.32
Paul Tozour
The 4 swords a parable of leadership video games and dead dragons.

01:00:24.65
smccain
Fantastic. We'll put a link in that in the the show notes I I want to say this as someone who's coached teams before and who's had good years and not so good years and if you lead any group of people. Culture even if it's become cliche to say culture it. It. It really is something you have to wrap your head around and and learn how to create because I used to tell my my my team I said listen you have 2 coaches if me and the other coach and there would be like let's say thirty thirty of these athletes. Said. But if you subscribe to what we're teaching you and you believe in this and you buy in 100% and you all hold each other accountable I said now you have 31 coaches right? each and every one of you has 31 coaches because.

01:01:16.34
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah, yeah.

01:01:22.39
smccain
You will hold this person accountable and you will hold that person accountable and you will hold everyone will hold each other accountable and literally what happens is you got to protect it when it happens but this this is my experience but literally you can just take your hands off the wheel.

01:01:34.77
Paul Tozour
Um, ah.

01:01:36.24
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah, yeah.

01:01:39.42
smccain
And it is a self-perpetuating machine and when when that happens it's the greatest it it it. It all makes sense but it is so hard to get to that because it's a lot of just drama and nonsense.

01:01:46.60
Paul Tozour
Yeah, it is and and very few leaders really understand how to build that and it's like it's like Peter Drucker always said culture eats strategy for breakfast can have the best strategy in the world. But if you got a broken culture. It's.

01:01:59.44
smccain
So yeah yeah yeah yeah that's fantastic I yeah yeah I mean look I mean if Paul this is this has been a very enlightening conversation and but also at the same time you you've really sort of allowed some of these.

01:02:06.57
Paul Tozour
Car is not going to go anywhere. Yeah.

01:02:23.55
smccain
You know therapies that I might have set and looked at in a conference and said Okay, it's come and it's coming. You've you've allowed me to to really go. Ah I can see how you can address your biology with some of these and look they're available right now they are available.

01:02:36.93
Paul Tozour
Yeah, there's so much more possible right now than most people realize and again you're never going to hear about any of this in the mainstream news media ever. They just have no idea it even exists.

01:02:45.34
smccain
Yeah, why Well and that's why we need you, you know and that's why I'm I'm glad you came on here and and and you were like the perfect first guest for this and the fact that you were adamant about you know, hey this is my schedule. It's my schedule my schedule and you just forced me to be ready because I was like I'm probably not quite ready yet I need to. You know? but I was like what am I waiting on I want to talk to this guy and and you know like you know I tend since I'm such a perfectionist I I always try to everything I create now leave a little something unperfect because I you know when you've been judged for 20 years on your performances by ah you know judges. As a gymnast. It can be it can wreak havoc because I can overplan a million you know until the end of time you know so I want to ask you 1 last question is how would you like to be known or remembered you know.

01:03:27.80
Paul Tozour
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:41.61
smccain
Whether it's you know in the future in this space.

01:03:44.25
Paul Tozour
Yeah I mean the main thing is I'd like to still be around right? I don't want people to have to remember me right? I'm not saying I'm going to live forever. But you know when I close my eyes I see the grimmer reaper coming out with with a double barrrelled shotgun.

01:03:48.29
smccain
Yeah.

01:03:59.54
Paul Tozour
You know? and and I may never be immortal I'm going to die someday. But I want to be able to take that shotgun and turn it around right? I need to be able to do everything I can to fight that um and you know again, disclaimers ah apply talk to your primary care physician. But at the end of the day for me.

01:04:03.56
smccain
So nice. Yeah.

01:04:16.61
Paul Tozour
Definition of a biohacker is somebody who takes full responsibility for their own health right? and so you've you've got to look at what's out there and you've got to decide what therapies do I want to take which ones do I not want to take what lifestyle changes do I want to make that are going to get me closer to that goal.

01:04:20.23
smccain
Yeah, absolutely.

01:04:32.31
smccain
Yeah, well thank you for for you know, making some of these things seem more of a reality to us and if people want to find you reach out to you where can they find you.

01:04:42.89
Paul Tozour
Yeah, probably the best place is Linkedin I've got a pretty unique last name. It's t o z o you r it's toser run some bulldozers so just look me up on Linkedin send me a message on there. You can also connect through Facebook.

01:04:56.36
smccain
All right? well look we we're going to have to have you back on in the future because I don't imagine you're going to stop this and and we I want to I want to hear about the progress of what you've done and I also want to hear about and I'm sure everyone listening would want to hear about what you're doing a year from now.

01:05:13.95
Paul Tozour
Awesome! Awesome! Absolutely I'm up for it anytime.

01:05:16.16
smccain
Yeah, Paul absent. Thank you so much for coming on and thank everyone for listening my name is Stephen Mccain and this is my guest Paul toser look him up on Linkedin. Ah, he's a nice guy reach out to him. He'll give you some information if you're into any of this stuff will include everything in the show notes down below and until then we'll see you in the next episode take care bye bye.

0:00   How & Why Paul Got Into Biohacking

8:30  Telomerase Gene Therapy

25:39   Therapeutic Plasma Exchange

42:32  Follistatin Plasmid Therapy