Welcome to the Stephen McCain podcast where every week. I bring you people doing a world-class things in the realm of human optimization and performance. Today I have Dr Sandra Kaufmann.
In the house. She's the author of two books the Kaufmann protocol - why we age and how to stop it. And her second book…Aging Solutions. If you are into anti-aging supplementation. She is a wizard and you are going to absolutely love this podcast So let's do it…
Sandra. Sandy excuse me…
How many times do you have to. That to like tell me that. Welcome to the podcast…
Thank you. Steven. Yeah. It's so nice to have…a friend in this movement that you can, be giddy about this stuff You know what I mean,
it's fun. Too. Explore ways to give the middle finger to aging…
I don't think I can sit. Better than that…
That's perfect Yeah
I remember when I read your book which is fantastic And we're going to talk about it. to think that you'd be sitting here in Vegas, in my house. and us doing this podcast I would've been like. Damn what did I do to get her to come so it's a real honor seriously to have you here And I look forward to.
Trying my best to…exemplify some semblance of your work for people so that they go and fucking excuse my language but read these books because if you don't you are missing out In my opinion…
What do you think of that? And does the best ad ever I don't need a, I'm not going to need a rep. So my books that's fantastic. Awesome. Awesome.
Actually first let me let me start with how did you get into this Like what was the Genesis for you where you finally were like, I'm going to write this book…
So writing of the book is actually kind of near the end It started out with me being a doctor and me being a rock climber. and I was hanging off a cliff and I'm like this sucks. I'm getting older These young guys are around me then their twenties I'm in my forties. I can't do this for that much longer I got to figure this shit out and it became this like ridiculous question Everyone made fun of me for very long time, but I'd glue myself in my office I've you know I'm an anesthesiologist I have an office and I was sitting there reading everything there was to know and I thought, well there's some really cool information out there but it's it's horribly disorganized. And science has live in silos and they don't communicate it to people.
And there was no user friendly way to go about doing any of this. So I'm like okay, you know man up this is my job. So I decided to figure this out and I've said it before and it's probably horrible but I did this for me. I didn't want to get older I don't want to seem older on one builder. I'm not afraid of death Everyone thinks that that's what it's about And that's not it.
It's about living life, having fun enjoying things and doing as much as you can for as long as you can. Yeah. I mean that's kinda how I started, I. Was retired from sport. Got very unhealthy Cause I just threw the whole discipline away Do the rug got pulled from underneath me I was eating like garbage I was drinking a ton and.
I just got to this point where I'm like I'm fading away like big time, for me it was a little bit of like fear of death because I thought, maybe I was a little bit on a faster trajectory going downhill. You know rather than just kind of,
aging You know, At some point it became…
A little bit beyond me in the sense that I look around and I see that so many people need this information So I'm like, Okay let me, let me see what I can do to put it out there At the end of the day it's still on people to actually pick up the book and read it or take that supplement or go get a blood test or find they're the right people in the habits to help them But. what I find so interesting about you is that. I always ask you. Have you read this book or have you read this book or have you read this book? 'cause I just imagine you would've read everything and you're like I don't I don't read anybody's work Like I only do my own research And so what's so fascinating about that to me is that.
You're not tainted. In any way by somebody else's motives like literally what you say is what has come from your research And I think there's a lot of people and I've been guilty of that that are like these parrots that are like squawking little snippets of everybody's, books that they've read and really there's no underpinning, There's no framework underneath that It's just everyone's saying the same garbage. You know what I mean? Yeah no I I get that in some of these books I'm sure are fantastic And I'm sure these people much like myself are going to be like wow I read your book You should read mine. But to have my own ideas about longevity came from the fact that when I started during.
there were no books on longevity. You know if there was a book I'd have picked it up read it and been like yeah fine Everybody else This is what I'm going to do But there were no books So I had to create the book and I didn't start out to write a book Like whoever starts out to write a book I'm not a writer I'm a doctor. But before that was a cell biologist So I figured you know I can unravel this shit. It can't be that hard Right. Well, people are going to be trying to do.
You know a million years.
but you know like that was. I just thought if I took a stab at it and like you know the first initial steps I could figure something out and it was just, it be God itself One thing leads you to another which leads you to another And all of a sudden it sort of falls into a framework where you can sort of make sense out of it. And then once you have a framework, You sorta like worked down to the details and figure out well what can I do to decelerate each of these individual steps And I don't want Joe Schmoe's opinion about it. I want to read a study where they did X and X worked, or it didn't work or their variables Right. But I wanted.
die hard core science to make my own opinions and come on with my own philosophies. And I think as a result of that, I don't think the way most people think. you know as you know I'm a junk food junkie I don't do things that I'm supposed to do, but I've decided that I can molecularly outsmart my own body and you know who knows maybe the jokes on me and I will dive in early and do something horrible. But I think and I corny to my blood test I you can't actually do those. You can outsmart things if you know the nitty gritty details.
Yeah. It's fascinating I mean we had breakfast this morning. Showed me a little bit behind the curtain of some of the things that are a little more advanced and
you know and I know the thought process or I have an idea of the thought process that one goes into every one of those things and how you've sort of checkmated. Your biology and in many capacities And I just find it. I find it fascinating and it's so…innovative to. I mean let's, let's talk about your your first book cause The book I think. Immediately.
I imagined it was a hit for like kind of like a cult following. I told you the story I went into a vitamin shop. And me and this guy. we started talking about vitamins and he was like, oh do you know this And do you and I'd be like do you know this And he's like do you know this. And he said a couple of things and I thought this sounds like Sandra Coffin's book And I said, are you a fan of Sandra Kaufmann?
And he goes, oh. And he goes over and he pulls out a huge like two inch pamphlet of all these printouts of your work. I guess he had had he had printed out your book on like printing papers something. And then we just went off from there you know And so I blown away. By your ability to get the science down in a way that a layman person can understand.
You hold their hand with humor. your humor is like the voice in their head Sometimes that when you're reading it you're like oh that's a lot of science And then you say well that's a lot of science I get it Or.
But you start with the biology and you sort of say here is the framework of what we're talking about the cell the mitochondria and you and you lay down these these seven tenants of aging right. and then you go into, how do we basically. Checkmate those particular, pathways And then you give them a framework on how to pick out supplements to check the box and all of this. So maybe if we could just start with your seven tenants like have kind of a brief overview of those So people know. What the hell we're talking…
yeah I guess a good place to start, but I want to back up for a little bit. Hi. I am amazed and overwhelmed at how people have read. this book. I stuck it out there and I wrote it kind of as a.
Random thing right It was just like, everyone would ask me what I was doing So I thought you know what the hell I'll write it down. I have a publisher. I kind of had an editor but not really, certainly didn't have a publicist and it has become a crazy. Thing. I get emails from around the globe about this crazy book.
People stop me in places now It's it's so funny as my kids like to say I am famous in a very very very very tiny speck of the world. But in that speck of the world it's kind of a big deal So it was kind of really fun. and so clearly you having this conversation and the whole food storage is I just find that So bizarrely entertaining and cool. And it makes my day.
and another sort of similar story A friend of mine was on a a chairlift. Skiing like you know somewhere out west a few years ago and the scale of stopped and these guys are swinging whatever and some guy pulls out you know a pill or something and the guy goes out or do you take such and such such it's just like, oh I'm on a protocol I think he goes what protocol he gets Well of course I'm on the Calvin protocol. And then the guy goes oh she's my good friend because we were rock climbing together. And it was this complete like, oh my God I'm almost famous moment When they came back to tell me right. Random people on ski lifts are talking about me That's kind of cool.
You know, Well I mean look when I when I picked up your book, And it says why we age and how to stop it I immediately was like, well, okay. Here. Let's see what this woman's got You know like that's a bold statement and I liked that but then when I read it I was like oh my God like this really is a primer on. How to do that you know So I think you deliver on the promise and I think that the. The.
The title of why we age and how to stop it is. It's a damn good title to to stop someone in their tracks and at least make them curious to go Cause…
I look. who wouldn't want to. Age slower. Right It's it's a ubiquitous sort of I think fundamental thing I mean if you do want to age faster, More power to you but, it's a strong statement And again if if you've read the book you you know what I'm talking about it
The readability of it is for the material Like I don't. I don't have the patience. To dig through study after study after study to find out anything that's in this book I mean, I have some, But the way you've laid it out it's very readable And I don't know how you did that but the way you explain things is, is fantastic. Thank you I appreciate that.
But the title is actually kind of funny because I was pondering. I was walking up and down the hallway in the hospital. Going into like a million dumb ass things like it could have been called. Right. And a girlfriend of mine stopped me and she's like what are you obsessing about And I explained the problem and she goes well, He goes what the fuck is it about I go well, The heart the first off is kind of like like why your age?
I guess the second half is like what to do about it And she goes, Well that seems like a pretty damn straight answer. And that that's why it's called what it's called And it may be bold but that was sort of exactly what it was. Yeah. Well let's talk about why we age Okay. Yeah You're curious about the seven tenants Yeah And I will tell you that I have pissed off the establishment because I don't follow the hallmarks of aging.
and and the reason I didn't is I didn't realize it was such a big deal. When I read through the hallmarks I'm like, yeah kind of I get it could be better organized So I didn't really want to pay homage to something that I didn't really sort of buy into entirely because no one's going to remember nine things People remember seven things. which is why we all used to have seven digit phone numbers Right That's sort of like the maximum. of things we can memorize. So seven tenants So number one is called DNA alterations and stop me when I get really a wordy and boring here.
but the first thing like right you have to take care of your DNA. DNA falls apart for several reasons. Number one your telomeres get shorter. Number two you get epigenetic modification just sort of goes downhill as you get older. Which is why identical twins are less and less identical as you get older.
and then lastly you sort of lose structural integrity of your DNA. So in the in the book the first two are sort of covered The third one is sort of a new thing that I'm sort of throwing into book two, but again everything in tenant one is about how your DNA falls apart over the course of time.
the good news however is obviously there are ways to fix this. So I hate to be like the doom and gloom human without an answer So for anyone out there that's about to cry. There are answers We can save your. Your DNA Thank goodness. Right…
Thank God. Otherwise we just all be suicide. Ah let's say 10 or to one of my new favorites This is the mitochondrial category And I have obsessed about this lately. So there are many many many things that go wrong when your mitochondria. I don't even know where to start cause they used to have three simple things and now there's like 27 things.
But in essence, mitochondria fall apart because the electron transport chain fails the electron transport channels of course where we make ATP which is the energy or the coinage of ourselves. I like to think of mitochondria as little nuclear energy factories. they're usually very clean they're efficient They make great energy but they leak some pretty damn toxic products. So they only. They're going to leak free radicals And there's a little bombs that caused damage all over yourselves and we needed to deal with that.
as well when they are not functioning very well that could be cytotoxic to your entire cell So that's a big ass problem. they're driven by a sirtuin So we haven't gotten to cert two in Jeffress or two and three four and five drive your mitochondria And they fail of course over the course of time. And then the most
popular problem are the ones that most people know about is usually a nicotinamide deficiency. So you need NAD free electron transport chain to work. You also need it for three other reasons. We haven't gotten to it again but I need it for your And you need it for DNA repair mechanisms are needed for communication within your cell. So as you get older generally over the age of 40 your NAD deficients therefore if you supplement it you're going to do a way better off than if you don't.
In terms of all four of those categories. so that's sort of in a very sloshy nutshell mitochondrial failure. Wow…
Should we keep going with that That's just two tenants right? Okay Let's just so that people can actually keep that in their mind Right So we have DNA alterations and we have mitochondria. what would be some of the supplements that would work well for…managing DNA alterations feel free to talk about ones that you, you also mentioned in your second book We don't have to just stay with the first book. Hi…
So giving. Great podcast…
Let's see. So easy stuff. In terms of telomeres, stress. bad diets smoking all the things that have a rude your telomeres. It's hard to make them longer but it's easier to protect them.
Australia goes Some people say as for Gallus is a fantastic plant that sort of helps your telomeres. if he wants something more clinical cycle astronauts TA 60 65 are quite good. In fact I just brought you a few vials. 65 right It's my welcoming presence Some people bring wine. I brought TA 65 and exercise.
Yeah. And by the way if you're if you're watching this on the video if you look at my face you're going to see red dots everywhere where she taught me how to. Essentially shove a needle all over my face and put eggs isms in my face So. You know…
But…this is the stuff that gets me really excited So…
People are probably like what the hell is wrong with this guy Like I mean, I don't know So we'll see maybe a couple of videos later that people will be like wait a second Actually his skin does look better…
You know if you're a longevity specialist and you come to someone's home you gotta come bearing gifts. What else to bring somebody Yeah And you know what like, as I was you know professional athlete for 12 years it's like, There's times when it looks really pretty And there's times when you are just banged up sore. Beaten down and you know Hey. I'm not afraid to climb in the trenches that have my face get beat up a little bit today in order to see how these stem cells work…
Okay So just to make sure everyone out there isn't crazy They're not stem cells or exosomes. And if you look really carefully there's a bandaid on his right arm Cause we also do know that systemically, which is probably more important from a longevity perspective than just making his little face look prettier Oh, So…
Thank you. The exosomes like you talk about this in your book, that there's a wrongs on a ladder Like. nutrition. Sleep stress And I imagine exercise are all like the first rung of the ladder of anti-aging or longevity Right? Second wrong would be what your books are about.
So you don't It's funny So when I wrote the books I was into this ladder. Sort of philosophy And since then I've sort of moved into a pyramid type philosophy. Oh, so what I've done because at the bottom of the ladder was getting kind of dense There's a lot of stuff that you need to do on a consistent basis And obviously you already do it. Most people listening to this will probably already do it but you're right It's diet it's exercise It's daily supplementation We probably I red light in for a Lloyd every day. All of these things that you do you know it doesn't take very long and you do it on a regular basis.
So that was sort of latter one sort of turned into the base of a pyramid.
and then going up the pyramid there are things that you do not necessarily everyday I mean I guess you could but to be a little pathologic, an exercise therapy sort of turned into one of those things that I do once a month. And now you have done officially once a lifetime. concerns. Sure that full frequency will increase over time. But no but the idea is to create a.
It's a lifestyle right It's. I call it the longevity pyramid. What can you do different Aliquot lots of time to make yourself better. Yeah. Alec Watts.
I like that word. Is that a medical term? That is if you don't know it I guess I thought it was a normal word…
No you're absolutely right because I look at. I confront a lot of people about not exercising and. I've had every excuse thrown in my face you know and and I and I always ask them. D when you had to go to the bathroom did you make it to the bathroom Did you go in your pants? Did you somehow.
dress yourself this morning. Did you bathe, did you brush your teeth? Like. Yeah of course you know you're not walking around naked right You didn't go to work naked you know? And I'm like, You, you need to put exercise in that category It is.
Fundamental to being alive And that is the only time that in my opinion if you can't. Put it in that category. You're not going to be a lifetime exerciser if that's even a word like you're just not going to do it, I really think,, a lot of people might look at us and F never done anything for, you know, Anti-aging or super health stuff or whatever it is up to human optimization. Biohacking, but they might look at me like these people are or you know they're ridiculous right?
But it you know at the. Sorry I totally lost my train of thought…
Maybe we're just ridiculous…
Maybe his body's fantastic with the brain. Gone. Well the exit zone is help…
They cross the blood-brain barrier…
Oh God. But, you know…
Forget it I'm going to go back to you. Let's stick with someone who's got their their their stuff together So. So you talked about DNA. alterations, I interviewed my first podcast ever This guy
Paul Tozer Tozer who did a
The gene therapy. And it was very expensive like six figure business and the his telomeres are now growing every year. So I would imagine, you know back to our our. That's probably at the peak right? Well yeah, it's not quite at the peak.
Cryogenics at the very peak…
Yeah. Yeah Right right Which is kind of true but kind of a joke at the same time Right Cause you're absolutely done. Just freeze yourself Yeah. So it's one step below that but genetic therapy I mean it's it's pretty serious stuff You only need to do it once, maybe twice Cause you can you know alter different types of genes Yeah, I think that he had telomerase injected I believe. Right Yes.
Yeah. And there are pros and cons with that It's certainly a risky and expensive thing to do but you know it's on the pyramid. Anyone listening to this is probably not going to immediately jump into gene therapy. Yeah If we can't get them to diet or exercise and they're kind of hosed. Yeah yeah, yeah.
And that he's a cryogenic I did want to, I've always been open-minded to that but then I started thinking about…
I could end up if I let's say at the end of my life I was like I know I'm going out. I'm going to just freeze myself. And…even if you have. money with time value of money you could compound that interest You could wake up and have. A ton of money right.
But I was like what if you wake up on another planet 50,000 years from now as a science experiment. Like that could theoretically happen. Right? So. I kind of got turned off a little bit about it but I'm still open-minded to it but that's a little bit of a rabbit hole So…
Oh it's a huge rabbit hole. But you see these guys at these conferences These these cryogenics guys. I had an hour long conversation with one. And I picked it and I was like well where do you guys store And like they're like underground in Switzerland they had squared off all the questions.
Well there's a huge facility in Phoenix. Is it Yeah Maybe I've heard of that one as well Yeah. Yeah. That's and they tell you that insurance will pay for it If you you know started putting away money now and that it's cost effective. And in 50 years they'll have all of the things.
I'll like ready to go and grid I'm not a huge proponent, but on the other hand it is the end all be all of life Right. Yeah you can always come back. Yeah The only problem you know is that. You end up. Maybe potentially.
But all your friends family everyone all those memories I think some psychological sort of hurdle to be like, Wow I'm, I did this but now everyone I've ever known in all the memories I ever have with anybody they're gone. it's kind of a little bit of a morbid take on it. Yeah I mean you can be optimistic or pessimistic from an optimistic point of view. If you had the opportunity to wake up a hundred or 200 years from now and just look around to see what was here. Oh yeah.
That'd be amazing right Yeah. It's equivalent to being the volunteer to go to Mars for the first time Yeah right Yeah You're not coming back. All the people that you know and all the memories are sort of like. Gone right Yeah And it's the opposite. to see something that no one else has seen.
Yeah I agree with you on that a hundred percent I think that. You know, Just to have that experience because the truth of the matter is whatever you think a hundred years from now is going to look like you have no idea No we could be backwards There could be an apocalypse Of course. You know that a million movies on that or could look like the Jetsons We have no idea Yeah. And so if you're going to die anyway, It's a chance to maybe see the future. Yeah And if you don't you don't like you'd never know the difference.
And if you do then Then you win. Yeah. Yeah but even on a let's say a smaller.
A smaller level It just in terms of taking care of your health and doing some of these things to like…checkmate. Aging to some extent like I think. Was it David Sinclair He was saying because a lot of people are like I don't want to live to 120. I don't want to live to be that old And and he said, well what if. the DMV called you up but the government or the state And they said oh we got your driver's license.
We got your date of birth completely wrong. You're actually 80…
He's like would you now want to die?, if you could be the same as you are now but you found out actually you were 90 years old, would you I still feel the same way about I don't want to grow old. Right So it's and the problem with this stuff is kinda night I so much wanted to talk about your stuff because. We can go back to that We will but but I, but I think this is important because it's. The problem with this stuff is it's like watching your fingernails grow.
If you sit there and you look at your hands all day long you're not going to notice him growing You're going to be like my fingernails aren't growing. But if you, in two weeks from now if you check your your fingernails they gonna have grown Right. Our brains can't comprehend time and aging very well Like it's one of those things So a lot of people are like, eh, whatever but then 10 years goes by and you start to notice. Wow I feel like I'm not aging as fast as some of the people around me right. And so I think that it's one of those things that you kind of have to take a leap of faith.
some sort of value in it because…you're not going to just…do one supplement and all of a sudden look in the mirror and be like man I look better. You know maybe we'll see…
But see that's you even believing a little bit but…
No but I think I think you're absolutely right And I think the important thing is that you're touching on is the difference between health span and lifespan. Yeah. Right. People generally that are not in our world. Say I don't want to live to be 120 because those people.
They're horrible I mean like I'm sure they're very nice people, but they're very ill They looked at crepitus They're very frail to look like you know, the bad breeze is going to sort of like knock them off Yeah But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about health span. How long can you be as healthy? As you want to be. Right And who cares if I, if I can climb mountains when I'm a hundred I'm going to do it right Yeah.
You know it's just, it's it's the. The available time in a healthy sense to do the things that you enjoy Meet new people have new and adventures. With without having to worry about cancers and nasty horrible diseases, if you can reduce relative risk of all the major health factors, why would you not? Right. It's not just longevity It's increasing.
Healthspan and that that I think is the key take home message to most of this. I am absolutely planning on paying 120. But if I'm decrepit then screw it And of course not Time for that cryogenics…
Maybe just my head They'll do. And Walt Disney somewhere Yeah…
But it's about the opportunity. To do things that you wouldn't normally be able to do right. So most people retire when they're 65 and they died at 80 like. That's crummy. Right.
Let's say if you're tired at 65 and you lived to be like one 20 you into half of your entire life. To go do the coolest shit ever. Right It's just it's time It's free time It's so cool.
that was the nugget I mean when you talk about health span I mean really at the end of the day that's, you know we we want to usable. Life that is free of disease that is long lived with full capacities you and that's why like recently. I started using the term fit span. I even bought that URL because I was like I don't know I'm going to make a mark on that one because you know fitness How how long can you live a full life of fitness I know a lot of people that are.
Or a few people let's say that are aging and getting in their seventies and their body is starting to fall apart and they exercise is their life. for me, movement is so fundamental to my wellbeing. That. I I couldn't imagine not being able to work out Like I I. I don't know if my brain.
Would make…the same, like it just couldn't function as well Like I'm so hardwired to work out. And it doesn't mean that I'm some workout. If it's got more refined as I've gotten older as I'm not some crazy workout guy. But I, it fundamentally is a vitamin to me that that I, I just couldn't imagine living without So a lot of this stuff is riding on me being able to.
live in a body that I feel like I'm still an athlete. No and it's actually it's a positive cycle. Because it turns out that exercise improves all seven tenants of aging. And then by improving all seven sentence of aging, you're able to do it more. So it was one of the fantastic positive feedback loops that we have.
And and granted I was never a professional athlete. I may weekend warrior Like there's no way I could ever stand up to anything that you've ever done. However, if I don't exercise at least. God six days a week. I want to kill myself.
I hurt everywhere if I don't move. So I think that's just part of a healthy aging. Yeah Right Like you just, you stay active and you are active and when you're not you just feel like crap. Yeah When I. Go through some periods where I'm not exercising because maybe something comes up I'm busy I'm moving whatever.
I'm like oh my God how are people doing this I like holding people not exercising I. Like my body just feels, oh like you don't digest food the same You don't move the same You don't stand the same You don't breathe the same You don't think the same. the tempo everything just starts going slower and down and down. You know, And
I it was funny cause when I w we we met at rad Fest and I I remember when I spoke I I told the audience I said, I want you cause I reminded them of the benefits of exercise And I was like I want you to pay attention. For the rest of this conference. To every single leg. that comes up here. That gives their dissertation on something but also says exercise will also do this.
And you came up next and you did your how to eat donuts I'm way over. Without without any any negative effect And then you also said an exercise will also you know and I thought there it is there it is? So going back to rod Fest this was like the worst person ever to follow So if any listeners are out there are going to go to red Fest or any other conference, do not follow Steve McCain onstage. Because he gives us fantastic lecture and then he does his fucking acrobatic handstands. Right.
And then I get on my like yeah no I can't do a handstand. And it was rather disappointing for the crowd and I felt like…
I should be like pull out some fantastic move. And I don't have any. You told you to taught them how to eat a donut with no negative effect to their. That there are body Yeah yeah A little bit less. Precedent handstands I mean I had to do handstands because I mean and I didn't plan it I just in the moment I just was like that's the cherry on top but look you got.
I'm surrounded by scientists at that thing And I I was gonna pay to go there and I just applied and they're like, to speak and they're like yeah you're in And I was like okay. And I thought. You know, I'm not going to there's so many scientific speeches They're like really science-based I was like I'm going to do something a little bit more motivational because I think, that will kind of offer a little balance in there. But I went there and I was talking to people at the lunches beforehand and I was talking to they're like what are you. Exercising.
And I just kept getting the psych. Oh…
The people were just sort of like unenthusiastic about it They didn't work out that much You know there was like nothing And I remember thinking., oh my God this conference. Needs me. So as I either could have imploded and been like shoot I'm going to be out class Cause no one's going to care about what I'm doing and I'm not some science person, but I was like no, I'm going to, I'm going to bring it And they are going to see. What exercise and they're going to feel what exercise can do for you I think that the next time you should bring out a pummel horse and while you're lecturing just keeps swinging.
Back and forth you know? And then hit some pose and go, so the take home message blah blah blah. And then you like go back to like the swinging thing and I guarantee you you'll get people's attention. Oh we'll get their attention within They'll probably be like who's this jerk up here Like just. Basically.
You know like. Showing…
Which I actually did a hands did so but yeah I I was excited cause you were speaking in the same panel as me That was the regenerative panel. And you came in just. Ooh like marching And I was like dang this woman is I get it. I get why she's written these books She is a soldier…
And then, and then I came up to you and I said Hey I just want to let you know I'm a huge fan of your work or whatever And then that's it We talked literally until the moment they said Steve you're up go on stage, So it was a it was an awesome intro. Well just for the listeners Just to know I'm not that intense I thought I was late. Someone had told me I had five minutes to be on stage Like. Ah so I sprinted a cross a like a, like a resort area sort of thing Yeah, took off my heels ran as hard as I can My hair and standing up on edge. I was convinced that like I was super super late.
Kind of have freaking out right Like oh my God. And then like some random human stands in my face and says I'm a fan I'm like…
The only thing you think of is like, who the fuck are you? What time is it…
So it's a precipitant very nice conversation after I realized that I wasn't actually late but yeah Yeah. You told me that story how you thought you were late And I was like oh okay I get it But everyone were like, yeah it was funny Cause when you read someone's work and then you you see them for the first time but I just I'll never forget you walking in. Cause you knew a lot You see a lot of business guys that are like that Like there. They don't have a second to lose literally you're talking to them you're wasting my time next And and you had that sort of March about you And I was like okay I get it You know…
And then we started talking You were completely different you were really nice And we had a great conversation. So. Ah this has been a, this has been hilarious I love I'm loving this. Which said nothing. Thinking about longevity.
Yeah. But you know. W w…we have sometimes you just want to know. That. There are people out there in the world that actually think.
And have the same desires as you I think that's what is kind of the glue. For me and you like why we kind of. You know make time for each other and really get along as because we know that we're kind of cut from the same cloth you're totally different than me you wrote these books I don't write these books. I come at it from a different way but you've. I walked in my supplement cause it you've seen all the gear stuff I have So you know I'm serious in my own way.
But we both subscribe. To something right. And so, you know if someone's listening out here and maybe they're like oh great I wanted to learn about this.
Kaufmann protocol. Well, you need to read the books that that's you know just period, but at the same time it's probably comforting to know that Hey, I'm not some weirdo. You know what I mean Yeah You are. Well, I mean, I was talking about them saying that to them…
It was just you know, it was right there Sorry…
Yeah that was low-hanging fruit. Yeah. Yeah. So anyways DNA. Now…
So we we've covered that one, let's do this just so that we at least have some semblance of that We have mitochondria. All right And then with that I imagine that's a lot of, I don't imagine I've read your books There's a lot of antioxidants are typically to to mop up those free radicals right? So it's several things you want to increase your own indogenous production of free radical scavengers. You can take regular free radical scavengers that get into your mitochondria That's extremely helpful. NAD supplementation is extraordinarily helpful.
upping your sirtuin activating specifically three for your mitochondria is extremely useful. they're just amazing things that you can do for your Monica Henry specifically. but the thing I do want to add is that this is not a one-to-one proposition, as it sounds like you don't take agent X for your DNA You don't hit agent B Fremont. There are many things that have amazing overlapping abilities. which is why I ended up creating the Calvin rating system to sort of demonstrate that one agent could have lots of properties
maybe different levels of efficacy in the different ones which is why there's a bunch of different numbers involved. But the idea is that if you decide to go on a longevity protocol, you don't take one thing for one and one thing for another you create a combination of things whereby you're covering all of your bases as avidly as you so desire. and granted we've only got to mitochondria there's there's like five other things and I can speed through them if you want. Yeah. I just want to at that point you're saying is that you know maybe one particular supplement or add savant as you…like to tell people Right
That's basically a supplement is something you already have in you right As opposed to a pure exogenous compound it's foreign to your body That's an edge of on right Is how you say it. Correct. Okay. So. the point you're making is that you might take something for DNA.
alteration or DNA repair but at the same time it's also got these other downstream effects or it hits three things or four things Right Correct. Correct Okay. So, so we have,
we have DNA repair We have mitochondria. What are what's what comes after that What's tenant three. So 10 and three has pathways. What's a pathway pathways or things that come from your genes They make proteins. Enzymes and they control your cellular homeostasis.
big three in this category are number one years or two ones. You have 7 million sirtuin. and these are basically their deal Siddeleys activators essentially. So they strip the CDOT groups off of histones off of proteins to activate them and make them work. one's the big one controls most of yourself the reason your mitochondrial six It's also in your your nucleus.
Those are the things we'll have big ones that have to do with aging. second big pathways amp kinase pathway, and this measures the amount of energy you have and it sort of puts you into a sort of state of a Harbor. which helps with longevity If you are lowing lowering your caloric intake for example, and this is one of the big reasons that caloric restriction diets work activate your amp kinase.
and therefore a variety of systems get shut down and they're all associated with longevity So that's very helpful. And then the third one in this category is the mTOR pathway. This is sort of the opposite this measures energy and that it builds things. And there are many theories about how if you turn off the mTOR pathway as you get older you do better. but it's not as clean cut as that So we're going to sort of avoid the details of that because that's an hour long discussion all by itself.
Yeah. And for some reason on this the thing I'm the most interested in talking about as cause as as a someone who's, who works out. I want to be activating M tour. At least at some point in order to be anabolic right. But, you know it seems like…
seems like it's regarded as this thing We want to try to shut down because it seems like. People live longer right That's the whole rapid myosin thing right Correct. But, what quality of life do you have? If you don't have the capacity to be anabolic at certain times when you need to grow I think balance is what really it's all about, You can live a miserable life where you're just meager and weak and thin and barely eat and be on a caloric restriction for the rest of your life And I think there's an experiment with these people did that and they came out of the thing and they were just they looked like they were just miserable Right. So…
Right So so just to sort of add the. The icing on the cake to the MTR business. If you take. Not humans but rats.
Rodens that sort of thing. And you block. Them to where they they do They do extraordinarily well. Right. Which is why this gets extrapolate.
to humans. The problem is that fast turn over cells get affected. So what are the fast turnover cells It is your hippocampus. Gut lining. Yeah Yeah Yeah.
So so but I always think top to bottom So it's your brain. HIPAA Campbell plasticity is crucial because that's your memory. So if you block empty you're not gonna make any new memories. It is the lining of your gut Absolutely. the other big one of course is your muscle And then we also worry about red cell production.
So if you block this in entirety you're going to block all of that and you're gonna have some serious health issues.
people are trying to figure it out now a balance between blocking and not blocking people are trying to figure out well if I take. You know, Three milligrams of rapamycin every other Monday or something. Can I procure some sort of benefit. And I think the answer is partial inhibition at the right time. So also as an athlete not clearly is athletic to you I bow to your prowess.
but as someone that also wants to stay in shape and and re lead a reasonably muscular life, it has to do with timing of when you trigger M Tor And when you block M two R yeah Just about two hours ago I asked you. I said the thing that I'm always cause we went to my supplements and there was a lot of these amp K activators And, I was like, I don't. I'm not fully a hundred percent confident when I should take an AMPK activator because I work out and you know and I'm like it seems counterintuitive to. need to be growing and building muscle but yet I'm mimicking caloric restriction Like that that seems like a contrary you know And so.
maybe if you wouldn't mind saying the half-life of exercise and explaining that because I thought that was a nice nugget. So I like to think of exercise is is like taking a pill that lasts eight hours. So if you exercise in the morning for eight hours you're going to have the effect of that exercise. If you want to do something. That counteracts that wait the eight hours and then do it.
So as as our supplanting before. during the week I work all day and I exercise at night So I take most of my big a and P kindness alternators and MTR and all that sort of thing in the morning so that it doesn't interfere with my exercise at night and on the weekends it flips because I exercise in the morning, therefore like late in the afternoon I'll take all of that stuff. So I like to think of it as an eight hour pill., it's a nice little nugget to hold onto to to kind of keep you on the pocket.
What does Metformin fit into that? So so Metformin is an amp kinase activator, which by default makes it a partial mTOR inhibitor. Right. So if you take too much Metformin you're going to have the same aspects of over. A blockage of M tour.
So you don't want to go absolutely nuts but you want to take some so depends. on your body way 500 to a thousand is optimal You don't want to go nuts and take any more of that. Gotcha Sort of the just…
What about. Bear brain. So burglary is really quite interesting It's completely molecularly different. Than Metformin if it has a lot of the same similar activities around your body on a cellular basis. And there was a fantastic study came out a few years ago that demonstrated that.
the two of them in combination or better than either one alone. Oh, So 500 a berberine eight hours later 500 of Metformin or flip the order Doesn't really matter. is better than a thousand of each one individually. Interesting Cause I stick with the berberine because. Of the lipid.
benefits that doesn't seem to be there with Metformin, do you agree with that? I think that they're extremely similar. The, where are they at They seem to differ the most is actually in how they affect the a year your biota and your guts. because they do select out for ones that they just sort of prefer right And it's kind of cytotoxic to ones that they don't. So it changes your at your microbiome and they select out for different types of microbiome And as you get older, you want a diverse microbiome.
so I actually just think that the Synergen it's synergism between the two is optimal And so that that's what I'm doing right now. Interesting Am I. I might look into that And the beauty of Metformin is this dirt cheap right? Super dirt cheap you know? Even berberine is dirt cheap really I mean compared to like some of what some supplements can cost, right.
It's really funny My problem is actually. The new thing in pharmacology area is taking Metformin and gluing it onto other diabetic meds. So I have to take a thousand by default because it comes stuck. To two of the other medications that I take. Oh interesting So they've baked it onto it Huh?
Interesting. And you can't find those things like the visually. I have not been able to. If you can't find it then it's probably not out there. Well no you know it is but I tend to not use things that one would use a prescription for and go to CVS.
I tend to use things that I get from around the globe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah You've shown me some of the websites that you shop at.
Well we've gotten through four of the tenants We're making so much progress We're making we're making. And the beat is we kind of keep coming back to them and then we go off and that way people have to kind of wait around for…
So, so let let's take about 10 at five. Right So 10 and five is quality control. What is quality control? Quality control is a recognition that things go awry right If you have a factory your equipment sort of breaks your product's not going to work so great. It's the same thing in a cell.
So here we're looking at specifically errors in your DNA. Or DNA repair mechanisms and protein repair mechanisms. I also have autophagy in this category because when something is so completely destroy that you can't fix it anymore then you recycle the pieces and parts. So it's all sort of falls into the category of quality control. and so it's so sort of interestingly to take a little micro dive and the DNA world they're actually for DNA repair mechanisms that are really quite important.
Two for single strand and two for double stranded. And of course over the course of time the machinery falls apart So as you get older, not only do you have more DNA damage, but you have less ability to fix it. And of course more DNA damage is associated with increased risk of cancer increase of senescence cells, you know and a host of
sort of diseases that come along with all of that. the good news of course is you can boost some of the aspects of repair mechanisms. Yeah I mean I, I, I think it was your book that kind of the light bulb went on one. When you activate a gene that is associated with…longevity it, makes a protein that actually turns on. Another gene.
To do a specific repair task whereas that, secondary. Jean would never have been turned on if the first one wasn't turned on. And so that made a lot of sense for me, like sauna say well you know these heat shock proteins these. FOXO three you know like it will basically the heat turns us on It makes a protein which subsequently creates another protein in that it's like a light switch or a power switch for. A whole grid to turn on, is that kind of in this area This.
Yeah so he's shot proteins or chaperones essentially. And that's part of the proteostasis system. So when proteins go arrive proteins are very interesting. Right We think. We think about it It was like pretty simple things.
Oh we should eat more protein. What a protein is, it starts out as a single chain of amino acids It has a secondary folded structure a tertiary folded structure, and they don't want to bond with a second protein It has a coronary. and the way proteins work is by three dimensional, fitting into a receptor to make something happen This is so proteins have to maintain a three-dimensional structure. So over the course of time in your cell they become unfolded very easily.
so there's every big protein has a chaperone protein associated with it's like the babysitters of the protein world and the chaperones make sure that that protein if it gets unfolded re folds, or if it gets horribly unfolded it then tags it and takes it to the recycling. been a of yourself. So he talked proteins or these chaperones not. It's not a square rug tagging What is a square rectangular thing. All he talks or put up rounds But not all chaperones or heat shock.
they come in different sizes they do various things but they're prevalent in all of yourselves Really fucking cool system. but of course that feels over time too. so yeah There's so yes being in a warm environment does trigger heat shock, but you want to trigger the other ones as well And of course we have agents that can do that because it's the same deal As you get older, your proteins fail more and your ability to fix them also fails. Yeah. So we need to get all that back to some sort of good basic homeostasis Yeah, to me it seems like a lot of people talk about oh if I optimize the cell I optimize someone's health?
There's things to me that seemed like big. Switches like. Repairing protein folding. Like if all the messaging and my body is basically built on proteins being able to fold because when I learned how that worked basically like if a receptor that looks like a baseball Mitt and then
you know a protein comes with like a baseball it goes into the receptor that makes a new three dimensional protein Right Which in turn makes it. Coil into something different And then that makes the inside part of the receptor. Inside the cell turn into something else which triggers something else So it's like, I was like wow if you're not folding proteins…
Efficiently you are dumbing down. Your communication network It's like being on a form of dial-up internet as opposed to broad ban Is that a good analogy? I think that's the region…
about kind of it's just so it's just what happens is your body spends, you know X number of kilocalories or whatever making a protein. And let's say some percentage of those don't work. Right. So let's say 50% don't work Well 50% are working So it is kind of working It's just not working as well as it could be. The problem is that the ones that are not folded.
They should get taken to the recycle bin but frequently they don't. And misfolded proteins are extremely cytotoxic. Extremely cytotoxic, most neurologic diseases. A component of that is misfolded aggregated proteins. Hmm.
And it's funny when you learned about it in med school you'd say oh yes The soul has a Lewy body in it That's bad. It means it's like you know disease X. We never knew what that meant, but it turns out that it's all aggregated misfolded proteins. Interesting.
is that like LipoFlow skin or fuss skin? No not at all. So life a fusion is waste product. So, all right so now you're fast-forwarding to two tenants seven. Great Perfect.
Perfect Perfect segue. Yeah we just skipped a few that's okay. So in the waste management category,
the biggest thing in this category is glucose. Right. We need glucose and it causes a ton of problems around the cell I everyone's trying to get rid of their glucose loads. People were the silly glucose monitors, and it's very important. Because glucose is terribly horrible and there's, you know a mirrored ways of like sort of dealing with glucose which is why I encourage people need donuts if they really want to because I can clearly cheat the system but that's not why fusion live fusion is an accumulation of cellular garbage.
when things undergo a autophagy or mitophagy. or something just gets taken into a vesicle and sort of gets dissolved. The cell's not stupid Right So it takes out all the pieces and parts that it can recycle. And there's always this glob of stuff that you can't recycle. is it you know, For various reasons is the bonds are too big It's you know the cells Dean and cytotoxic blah blah blah blah.
But there's this guava stuff that just cannot be dissolved So the cell takes it puts it in a vesicle and shoves it to the back of the cell. And so for cells that divide cells are pretty smart They like take it and they go okay well we'll just divide it up so that every time a cell divides you get a little bit less of it So it's not so bad, but for cells that don't divide it just constantly accumulates. And I call this the kitchen drawer phenomenon. I was just going to say that because you're like yo. Makes sense right?
So for those of you that don't know what this means. People that have lived in a house for a while Right? There's There was a drawer in the kitchen that you throw your shit into that you don't know what to deal with We all have this people go I don't have that. You're lying through your teeth. Everyone has a kitchen drawer filled with crap.
The longer you've been in the house, the longer like you put crap in the drawers And at some point you can't open the damn drawer. That's the type of fusion. Right It was useful. Not really useful anymore It's just taken up space and it's being problematic. That's less efficient.
Have you looked at the supplement Centro financing…
No. That supposedly is something for light of. skin few skin or whatever, however you want to pronounce it but like, I I have these weird indexes in my brain of, you know looking at so much supplement stuff but that one I heard, has some capacity for that whether it's it is in fact true or not but It's generally put in a lot some brain supplements. Yeah it might be in quality of mind., I don't know something to look at I will look it up.
I can tell you that there are many things that reduce the amount of light profusion you can accumulate Yeah But it's definitely it's significantly harder to get rid of it. Yeah. w actually wasn't suggesting to totally get rid of it I think it was a reduction is what. Yeah. Yeah.
So which one did I miss? Let's say we went from so quality control is…
For so five is your inflammatory system Okay Right So your immune system becomes your inflammatory system over the course of time, right When you're young these fantastic cells float around your body they regard you from, you know all sorts of horrible microbes and pathogens et cetera. And as you get older it becomes very inflammatory. As a consequence of this. He invented a word called the inflamed…inflammation Inflammation Yeah right Or your inflamma som Yeah. So you just become horribly inflamed over the course of time and inflammation does horrible things.
It causes DNA damage It causes protein to. It causes all of the horrible things that we just have already been talking about. So over the course of time you want to make sure that you are not as inflamed as your body wants you to be. So that's crucial. Absolutely crucial.
Yeah Don't they say that all disease begins. The root of all diseases inflammation. they may say that I'm not sure of all diseases inflammation but significant amount Sure absolutely. If inflammation causes DNA damage which we know it does.
We know inflammatory issues called cancer because inflammation causes DNA damage which is causes mutated cells which were just cancer. Yeah. So what are the. What are the supplements that are good in this category? My have salute favorite And I've said this for a million years is curcumin.
It is amazing in several categories but this is like a big huge giant standout.
the problem with curcumin and everyone says oh I take tumeric They'll all be fine And the answer is that's nice but the tumeric the bioavailable No valuability. The amount of curcumin in tumeric is very small So it's really you're not getting enough and the bioavailability of standard curcumin isn't that great either. So there's been the escalating war for the last 10 15 years on who can make the most bioavailable curcumin. Cause we all know that it's just a horribly good for you. Yeah.
So if anyone's out there listening just. Try to get the best possible curcumin that you can. Yeah We were just looking at that a little while ago You were showing me some some really bioavailable forms. I mean look that one's been around for 5,000 years right Used and it's it's stood the test of time So I think you know whereas maybe if someone's listening to this they might be like ah you know like I don't know about putting all these exotic compounds in me and it's like, A lot of the things you recommend. Well they I mean they all come from some natural substance in some way or form they're in nature somewhere Right These aren't medications you know they're.
Right Like sort of in a way sort of. So to speak…
Yeah. This particular one the answer's Yes Yeah. Yeah it's been around for 5,000 years It's amazing It's even part of cancer protocols at the big giant centers because it's just so, so useful so useful, but the answer is no not all of them are from nature Most of them are, some of them are not. And you know people call me like holy apathic or natural And the answer is I think that's crap. I don't really get.
And here's where I become my real self. I don't give a shit. Where things come from right. I'm into efficacy. I don't care if it was 5,000 years ago or if it was invented, you know yesterday Yeah If it does what it's supposed to do with a very good risk benefit ratio, then why not?
Yeah. Right Yeah. But what a molecule is a molecule is a molecule whatever the molecule is what does it do? Yeah Yeah. And what sort of good versus evil is it in my body?
And how do I get my hands on it How expensive exactly Like where can I buy it? Yeah I've done some pretty fast tap dancing to get some stuff I probably should. have…
And also how expensive right Because you can have something that's very it works very well but Hey I'll take this other product that isn't quite as good but it's a. Pennies to the dollar Right right.
Well we've covered Have we covered all of them or did we miss? Let's see Oh so the the one in the middle six we haven't gotten to that and that's a sort of a it's a mixed bag It's called individual cell requirements. And this was the idea originally that a liver cell for example it's very different than a brain cell, which is very different than a red cell. Right They all have. You know some are mobiles some are not some are going to split Some are not.
So the absolute requirements of those cells are very different So you need to make sure that you pay attention to the absolute. Baseline requirements. Right One of my big examples in this category is like bone, right? There's osteoblasts and there's osteoclast and women that have osteoporosis is a big deal because as you get older, I'm going to backup a little bit ASTA…
dissolve your bone. and osteoblasts build it back. And you're supposed to have a great balance right To keep your good bone density and everything nice and healthy which is why you can heal bones right. Because it's constantly being rebuilt. The problem is is as you get older, especially with inflammation drives osteoclastic activity.
So the more inflamed you are not only is it causing cancer it's dissolving your bones and osteoblastic activity falls As you get older. So one of the big deals here in individual cell requirements is okay what can I do to increase my bone density So I don't get osteoporotic as I get older. Right So those are very specific things in that category Yeah And also. Metabolically demanding to build bone I imagine Right But you're constantly doing it. Right.
But it was really interesting So I work in a pediatric hospital and they tell me like a pediatric bone And you know a kid falls off the monkey bars breaks his elbow. You know it's it's going to be healed in three to four weeks maybe You know, maybe even faster than that Yeah. You take the same bone and a 40 year old it's it's it's way. More right. And then you move up to an 80 year old.
You're lucky if you're going to heal. Wow. And it's not surprising that these older people fall right It's a classic. You know circle of death. You got to be a little bit older.
Your balances off you become osteoporitic you trip over something You break a hip. You know you get it pinned maybe right There's not a lot of whole of bone in there to pin it to, then you become you know, Everything else and sorta like gets worse. Now you're stuck in bed You can't get around and you get a DVT or you have a stroke or blah blah blah blah blah. So bone health is extraordinarily important especially as we get older, but by the time you're older it's kind of too late to think about it So it's one of those things that it's got to be on the back burner with a sort of like everything else. But before we leave this category because I'm thinking I'm missing the two big things right.
Is we need to pay attention to the fact that so individual cells right Senescent cells and stem cells both fall under this category. So it's stem cells Of course we want to make as healthy as humanly possible We want to. You know keep our stem cells in their little nursery and their niche Keep them as happy as possible,
versus our senescent cells that we would rather nuke. and I'm on. Infinite number of anti-Semitism therapies to get them. Like out of my body as rapidly as possible. Are you on FOXO four DRI the peptide.
You ever do that one No I use chemotherapy chemotherapy. Damn straight I used…
Oh okay Yeah I've I've I've heard of that can you measure the efficacy of a stem cell activator or not a stem cell a senescent cell killer. Not in a body No In cell culture you can.
But the interesting thing about senescent cells is senescent cells are not all the same. Yeah they can either be zombie or they can be sort of like I'm not really sure what I'm doing Like isn't there stages of it. So the answer is yes but that's not what I'm alluding to Okay Nevermind…
So so what happens is you have a normal cell, right? A normal cell. and this is what you're alluding to it Undergoes DNA damage right? And the soul knows it's damaged So it puts itself into a state of quiescence and then the DNA repair mechanisms come in and they do their thing. And if that's, if they can fix it it fixes it And it goes back to being a normal cell.
And if it can't. I call it the polite way out Right You become apoptotic and you die. Great no harm no foul. Alternatively it becomes cancerous or becomes senescent. senescent cell changes morphology.
I call them old fat grumpy cells because they do they get chunky or they get fatter inside It gets sort of swollen the organelles look a little bit strange. it exudes horrible inflammatory Cytokinins called the SSP. And it's just sort of like, I. I don't want to say it's a malignancy cause it's not a cancer. But it just exudes negativeness all over yourselves and it's like the one bad apple in a pile.
because it exudes these things the neighboring cells are also going to then become more senescent and these senescent cells and B get themselves and B get themselves. They're not natural They're not helping me They're all natural They're not healthy. and they significantly contribute to the decline in health as you get older. So you don't want your Sonos and selves. the key hero over is that the healthy cell, not all healthy cells are the same Right.
kidney cell versus a fat cell versus, you know, Liver cell when they become senescent. There are different, right so they're not all the same So it was really interesting as I went through at some point and and categorize which agents affects which type of…senescence. Right. So therefore you rotate your. to theoretically knock off as many different types of senescent cells as possible.
That's a big nugget Like that's a marker Like, so give us. Like we talked about FYSA 10. That the way you pronounce it Yeah Okay then Yeah I was. I called it fist at. But I I.
I could be wrong. I'm going to switch it to…
There's that I know of What are some of the other, I think course a 10 is also of course and and does it right. And the cell types that they affect are very similar but not identical. Right. So I do hype high-dose FYSA It's been one weekend out of a month, right? High-dose quercetin one week out of the month.
or to Italy. Two days and then the definitive. And I just keep rotating them. Interesting And of you come across FOXO four DRI the peptide it's listed as you know…
There's always this thing that says okay potential settled Lytics, and it's also. on there and you go. It doesn't work very well. I'm not convinced that the evidence Like it's all that great yet Yeah Yeah I mean it's a real simple protocol It's three days out of a year So like I was like at one point I was doing it and then I, I kind of switched to more of, just FYSA 10 and of course at 10 because I was like I have them on hand all the time And. It's not cheap Fox 40 R I mean it depends where you get it obviously you know obviously you didn't need reputable You know manufacturers as well And so I kind of shelved it but I was doing it for a while Like I used to have like a calendar for my peptide So like it was like, I would get a thing that said oh it's time for this protocol It's time for this protocol.
I still do a lot of it But you know like I've I've kind of pared it down a little bit. But
that's very interesting of what the different types of senescence cells and the and the other thing I think people need to realize is that senescent cells live in areas of pathology. Right. So if you've had an injury. Or if you've had. Radiation.
If you're past chemo. I can guarantee you you are leading with senescence cells. Hmm. Interesting So, you know a year past an injury a year past whatever. It is extraordinarily important to.
Minimize the effects of these cells and you know a lot of people that you know that. Cancer They survive Fantastic You know they wear the shirts they jump up and down on a cancer survivor. You know and kudos to them, but they're not done with the sequella. the S the the burden of the senescent cells is going to destroy your life. Yeah And what's interesting is that radiation oncologists don't recognize this yet.
They just don't they say oh yes. You know five years out your X percentages is whatever whatever whatever business I have a cancer. You know they're fine, but we can make that even better. By understanding the sequella. Interesting That's fascinating I mean it kind of just goes to show you that.
Aging is aging regardless of how you got it. From the radiation the sun smoking whatever it is like. At some point. Your damaging structures that probably fall into one of your tenants. And then there is some sort of mitigation strategy.
You know and then on that there's different levels of that depending on how hardcore you want to be. I mean you being of course the hardest chorus…
Yeah a little bit of a nut…
Well I mean like you you have to go far in my opinion to teach. there's no way you could have written these books If you weren't even three five steps ahead of this stuff Right Like you're not clearly these books weren't at your like, intellectual maximal capacity That's why when I'm around you sometimes I'm like, oh yeah there is an, there is a whole nother level you know? And I I'm super intrigued I mean. I was I punk punctured my face. 10 times today with a needle on my own And you were just like, yeah I felt like I was in sports again You were just like come on let's go You're like dude let's do what are you doing…
Here I am like eh…
We have a video of it So, oatmeal. Kind of intertwined…
Agony the toy. The hemorrhage. Coming down your face I have no problem sticking the needle And it was the trigger of the just getting a small amount you know cause I didn't want to pump the whole vial And then end up with a knob or half My face is a younger and the other…
Oh my goodness. Well I mean look, I we're we're coming on an hour and 15 I I'm loving this by the way Like I do, if you still have the capacity. I still would like. To talk briefly about how in your second book? You coalesced all your sort of protocol into, including…different, parts of the body the brain the skin the bone you know all of that.
And I thought that that was very very nice that you could kind of look at it on those different things and sort of say oh I really should be focusing on bone So I'm going to hammer that that area. That's all I'm going to do for my mom because my mom has gotten to that point where she I could tell like she needs to focus a lot on bone. But, in in that. I guess there's really not much to say except for what I just said Right You just reference it and you. So what happens So it's two things So number one when I wrote book one, I had no intention of curing people's organs Cause why I was taking this from like a cells a cell right there.
Exactly the same but if you can make cells better at one place you're gonna make sells better and another, so therefore a few fixture kidney you should also be fixing your liver And that just seemed like common sense to me. But what happened would happen over the course of time is people be like okay, I want to be on a protocol.
but I'm really worried about. Like something. My skin my gut by this my that, and in the back of my head I knew what to tell them, because it was information that was in my brain but it wasn't written anywhere. So I thought by the time I got to book two, and introduced to it You know a variety of new aging problems and solutions and blah blah blah blah blah I thought why don't I just make a damn chart Right Everyone loves charts. So.
You know if agent X in different studies demonstrated that was useful for certain body system I'm like okay He's not you know I don't put a check mark there. If there's no check mark it doesn't mean that something doesn't help for that system. It just means there's no one's studied it yet. So you have to understand that like this is a very conservative system. This is only based on what people have looked at.
Right. I can't foresee what studies are going to be done in the future. and everyone always makes fun of me Well it's very conservative Of course it's conservative Right. I can extrapolate that if like 70 billion animals were helped by you know agent X in this category, it's probably useful for humans too. But if we haven't done the research.
I can't say that it has. Right. So it was it same thing with the Oregon system I'm sure that all of this stuff helps me pretty much all of your organs. But unless we specifically look at them individually. It doesn't get a check.
Yeah And if you're building out, you know a protocol where you say I'm going to hit all seven tenets. But I'm also going to be pay attention to the fact that I want to let's say pay attention to bone I'm going to maybe wait those things the the choices in that category so that I have that. That peace of mind that I'm actually., protecting that Oregon to as much as we know we can.
And the small caveat the only one the only organ system that's going to be different. Is the brain. And the reason the brain is different is protect. by the blood-brain barrier. Therefore.
Some of these things will get through but not all of them will get through. So if you're targeting your brain that is the one specific thing that's going to be different from all the other stuff. Yeah. Yeah., I like to use GAPA, you know and then you hear like well GABA doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier you know but you have these GABAA receptors I guess in your body that it will relax you
But I first got into this all this biohacking stuff the very first thing I was into was the brain Cause. You know it was like the idea of being limitless you know that movie limitless and like be like supercharging And then I very quickly realized you screw up your sleep real fast When you start tinkering with your brain My sleep schedule and my circadian rhythm is vital. me And,
you know I know you talked about you don't want to mess up your neuro-transmitters and things like that And I think that with the brain you kind of have to tread lightly you I wouldn't want to do this I want to, I want to just, give somebody a final nugget of like your.
Like your panacea if you could just kind of give them say Hey right now if you're listening to this and you want like the simplest, most basic protocol that covers all seven tenants that I feel is the introductory. You know, beginner stack what would that be? Okay. Right So obviously the panacea right. Why is it called the panacea?
Because it kind of spells it out. in no way do I actually think this is going to cure absolutely everything but it's a good place to start. If you are over 40 and if you have no significant comorbidities, so that was the panacea.
first one the P stands for Patara still been, it is a it does many things but one of the hugest things that it does and most important is it. To an activator. Your choices in this category is actor Patara still being or was very neutral. If you have lipid disorders Rivera Vera Charles your better bet If you don't then go with Proterra still because the bioavailability is higher. panacea PA is asked as Anthon.
Asked us Anthony is my most favorite molecule ever on the history of the planet It's the most amazing thing ever. I…people that goes I'm a curious cancer but you know what It actually does kind of at least limit theoretical risk of cancer So don't quote me on on curing cancer but it does help in newborn both ways. Is an incredibly strong free radical scavenger and increases your indogenous free radical scavenging capacity. It's also a huge anti-inflammatory. and if you eat too much, will too on pig.
But that's okay. P a N panacea N N is for an NAD precursor by the age of 40 we were all for the most part Statistically probably deficient.
your choices are nicotine and my driver's side or nicotine amine Mondo nucleotide, depending on what podcast you listened to and who's selling what they'll tell you one thing versus another, I don't really think it matters Which one you take As long as you take something. The other question is always well as I VE better than PO the answers are going to get it into your system one way or the other. no one's ever died of an NAD deficiency acutely. so if you have patients in time, oral is just fine Or if you feel like sticking yourself with needles. Ivy is fine as well It's just more expensive.
let's see panacea P and C's there are two CS One is curcumin We talked about that a little bit before is one of the strongest anti-inflammatories we have. And then carnosine carnosine is very interesting Is It is a naturally occurring peptide that we all have. in our bodies. men have more than women and young people have more than, than older people So if you were an older lady you were extremely deficient.
it does amazing things but the most important thing for our purposes, that disease transplant costs later. So it can actually start…
some of your tissues which is extraordinarily important Cause glycation is one of the big things that will get you in the end. and then if you want to be fancy we add the EDA the panacea, and that's EGC G which is the active ingredient in green tea. That's one of the strongest epigenetic modifiers that we can have. So in a nutshell that is the panacea and that's the place to start Fantastic I mean that, I'm proud to say that after reading your first book years ago that panacea is been in my stack as a staple. For years now.
For years you know And so, I think, I think your work is amazing I mean I really really do it is. Every time I go. and I open up your books and I get into them I'm like if they're enjoyable to read. The stuff is organized and explained in a way that is so great. And then there's that the the framework which allows someone to take action which at the end of the day is the most important thing Take action on it So.
Hopefully you found this whole thing entertaining If you were listening and you were willing to put up with our. You know our our our ramblings mainly my ramblings but
but look I want to thank you for coming out for for sharing your information And most importantly, for writing your books I mean, Thank you you. Fundamentally whether you want to believe it or not have changed my life. Because I have taken action on your research and what you do, and I completely appreciate your friendship and what you've done And I give my highest recommendation for anyone listening. start with the first book. And take it from there I don't even have to tell you to buy the second one You just you'll you'll be a fan.
. You want to leave us with any, any final nugget? I think I'm at a nuggets…
Yeah I kind of abused For an hour and 23 lines. I think you only get like five or six and a McDonald's pack a nugget So I think I'm out…
Awesome. Thanks for tuning in everyone and we will see you on the next one
Dr. Sandra Kaufmann, M.D.
This week's guest is Dr Sandra Kaufmann. If you are interested in supplements & anti-aging...you will love Sandra Kaufmann!
Dr. Kaufmann began her academic career in the field of cellular biology, earning a Master’s Degree from the University of Connecticut in Tropical Ecology and Plant Physiology. Turning to medicine, she received her medical Degree at the University of Maryland, and completed a residency and fellowship at Johns Hopkins in the field of pediatric anesthesiology.
For the last five years she has been the Chief of Pediatric Anesthesia at the Joe DiMaggio Children’s Hospital, a nationally recognized center of excellence. Most recently, she was recognized as “Best in Medicine” by the American Health Council.
Her avid interest in the science of anti-aging began many years ago as an intense hobby. Utilizing her knowledge in cell biology, human pharmacology and physiology, this hobby has now become a main focus. The project represents years of non-clinical research leading to the first, ever, comprehensive theory of aging.
The Seven Tenets of Aging
The Seven Tenets describe all of the presently known modes of cellular aging which contribute to the deterioration of tissues and organs over time.
Our DNA is our information depot. It’s packaged into chromosomes, which are protected by caps of non-coding DNA called telomeres. These telomeres shorten with each cell division and correlate with longevity. Concepts related to aging that fall under tenet 1 include epigenetic modification (like methylation), accumulation of DNA damage, and telomere shortening.
Mitochondria are central to energy production in every cell. They’re also highly susceptible to oxidative damage as we age. When mitochondrial function declines, cellular health and longevity are at risk.
3. Cellular pathways
There are three key cellular pathways related to aging: 5’-AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK),mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR), and sirtuins. AMPK is an enzyme that regulates cellular energy metabolism. mTOR is an enzyme that regulates cell growth and the recycling of organelles. Sirtuins are a family of proteins that regulate energy efficiency, programmed cell death (apoptosis), and other cellular processes related to aging. These metabolic pathways can be turned on or off to influence cellular aging.
4. DNA and protein-repair mechanisms
Each cell has at least 105 DNA errors per day at baseline. There are four key repair mechanisms tokeep the damage in check. But with age, these repair mechanisms become stressed. And when errors in DNA and protein synthesis accumulate, cells can fail to replicate normally. I include autophagy in tenet 4 because it has to do with recycling old organelles and keeping the cells in good repair.
5. Immune system
The immune system acts as our security system, but there are three ways that it can also contribute to aging: through an increased rate of inflammation with age, a decreased ability to fight off infections, and a heightened risk of immune cells becoming cancerous and developing leukemia or lymphoma.
6. Individual cell requirements
Some cells replicate every few days, whereas others last a lifetime. Short-acting cells have a greater need for a steady pool of nutrients, whereas long-acting cells require more support for waste accumulation. There are stem cells, quiescent cells, senescent cells, etc. Each of these types of cells has different needs.
7. Waste management
As cells age, they accumulate more and more waste. One example is advanced glycation end products (AGEs) from the bonding of glucose with lipids and proteins. Another example is the pigment residue lipofuscin.
Dr Kaufmann's PANACEA Protocol for healthy aging
Below is a "done for you" comprehensive anti-aging protocol. Dr. Kaufmann’s PANACEA protocol combines ingredients to support all seven tenets of cellular aging. Dr. Kaufmann recommends that most people over the age of 40 incorporate the PANACEA protocol into their daily routine. I have personally used this protocol for years.
Join my Thorne Dispensary & Wellevate Dispensary to get a discount on all the supplements listed below. Discount applied to every order.
If you live outside of the U.S., I suggest you reference Kaufmann's Master Chart and select supplements from the company Do Not Age (use code MCCAIN to save 10%) to cover all 7 tenets of aging.
Thorne's ResveraCel contains 3 supplements in the PANACEA protocol; Nicotinamide Riboside, Resveratrol, & Quercetin.
Dosing: 2 capsules/day
Klaire Labs L-Carnosine helps protect cells against free radicals and helps inhibit protein glycation.
Curcumin helps maintain a healthy inflammatory response in the joints, muscles, GI tract, liver, brain, and nerves
Dosing: 2 capsules/day
Nature's strongest antioxidant to support mitochondria.
Dosing: 2 - 12 mg/day (Athletes 12 mg/day) - Take with food
Note: None of this is medical advice. Do your own research, and consult with your primary care physician before undertaking any therapies.
If you would like to support the Podcast, I love coffee…thank you! https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mccainfitness
Premium Nutritional Supplements
Get 20% off all Thorne supplements on every order with free shipping. Join my Thorne Dispensary.
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