Leveraging Cellular Medicine To Unlock The Pathways For Optimal Health, Regeneration, & Longevity with Dr Elizabeth Yurth. EP 013

 Stephen McCain: Dr. Yurth, welcome to the Stephen McCain podcast.

Dr Yurth: to see you, Stephen.

Stephen McCain: Yeah, I'm so excited for this one. I, I just absolutely adore having any opportunity to chat with you. I will never forget the first time I ever saw you at the World Peptide Congress a couple of years ago and it was just a panel and you up there and you started speaking and I said, this woman knows what she's talking about.

It's been that way ever since. Every time I've seen you speak, so you're one of my favorites. And, and I'm just, I'm excited to share your knowledge with my audience and just, let's see what comes of it. Because every time we talk, it seems to be very interesting.

Dr Yurth: Well, I, I appreciate that so much and I'll give you back the same kudos because I, I I love listening to you and I love you coming at this from a very practical sense, right? I mean, we as physicians sometimes throw out all these things and people like you are the ones who kind of refine it into, well, I did this and this and this and this and this works and this doesn't work. It's really good to hear that, especially from somebody that you, who comes from this very high performance attitude, which is really fun to work with anyway. Those are the kinds of clients that are always fun to work with. So it's loved it. I love to live off your feedback on all this stuff. Cause those are the people you're like, okay, this guy is really optimized.

And if this isn't working in him, you know, what are we doing wrong? So it's, it's, it's, you know, you and I always have fun talking about that stuff.

Stephen McCain: Yeah, well, I,

Dr Yurth: my, my mutual appreciation for everything you're doing.

Stephen McCain: you know, fantastic. You know, it's nice to. for someone like me to really be so motivated by this industry and to be able to fit in and feel capable of doing that because, you know, when you're surrounded by, I talked to more doctors than any other type of person. Now, you know, I'm, I'm constantly ripping apart their protocols.

What are you doing? What are you doing? Little, little, little, little, like, you know, and so it's, it's nice to be able to fit in. I mean, I was premed at UCLA, so I have, I have some 

Dr Yurth: saying that and then decided to be an Olympian anyway. That was a good plan. 

Stephen McCain: I wish I could have knocked out both, but I like who I am, so I think it's all, it's all.

Dr Yurth: Well, it's funny because as much as, you know, if I look at what I learned in medical school, it was nothing to do with what I'm doing now. And I would say

anything kind of distorts your brain a little bit to, to be able to learn these new things. Cause you're so, so start, you know, in these paradigms of medicine that have just, been going from generation to generation to generation and not much really ever changes in medicine. And it's funny, when I first got into this field, you know, I don't know, many, many years ago now, probably 17 years ago, I started kind of transitioning more into this kind of work and, you know, and I was like, well, I'm learning from bodybuilders. I'm actually not learning from physicians anymore. I'm learning from these people who are actually more performance athletes who said, okay, you know, you know, like my first delve into even back then when nobody, you know,

a four M was 500 people and, and there wasn't a whole lot of research in this area and we didn't have the Dr.

Seeds out there that, you know, it was, it was a lot learning from people who were just sort of using end of, end of one experiments on themselves. And it was the bodybuilders and the people like you, and we learned a lot from that, right? We learned a

lot from the people were like, okay, this is. My optimal performance piece and so it's very funny that I would say early on in this world I learned more from that group of people than I did from the medical world

Stephen McCain: Yeah. I mean, that's so interesting, because I, you know, it seems like with doctors, you go through this whole 12 year process. I don't know how long is, I think it's 12 years, but, and then your education kind of seems like it just begins, 

Dr Yurth: right? and nobody wants to learn anything more I always tell people it's a little bit like you know, you spent all this time building this incredible house that you know, And and you spent all this time energy and then your friend walks into it and they're like wow this I wouldn't have done it this way.

This sucks. This sucks. This sucks And you're not gonna you're not gonna even listen to that right? You just spent You 10 years building this gorgeous house that was, you think is perfect. And now when somebody comes in and says, probably not,

you're like, blah, blah, blah. I don't want to hear it. And so, you know, it's really hard to change physicians.

They are very set in their paradigms and changing that is almost impossible. You know, sometimes is impossible. I will tell you, like I came from the orthopedic worlds like Bill Seeds and, you know, coming from orthopedics, which is about as far a cry from doing anything sort of health focused. And, you know, these guys don't want to ever hear that we should be doing anything different.

Because they're, you know, they're making good money and they're doing well replacing your joints and, you know, and why should we change?

And, you know, I, you know, I did orthopedics solely orthopedics for 17 years before I ever started studying, started studying longevity, functional health medicine, and then I tried to do both. And my partners finally came to me and said, you know what? We don't do medicine here. We do orthopedics. You need to stop getting labs and stop talking to these people for 30 minutes. And I'm like, you know, okay, obviously this isn't working.

Stephen McCain: Yeah, wow. Yeah. And it's, it's also. probably compounded by the fact that these orthopedic surgeons are, I mean, trust me, I've had, I've been operated on many times as a professional athlete. They're rock stars, like I've, I've been operated on by literally rock stars of orthopedics, and they're tremendous at what they, 

Dr Yurth: what they do, 

Stephen McCain: what they do, but if you don't have to open me up and there's another way to do it, utilizing cellular medicine, well, I'm, I'm all in on that if possible, you

Dr Yurth: Or prevent the, you know, most orthopedics is not fixing your broken bone, right? You had acute injuries, you have these things with gymnastics, but that's not most orthopedics, right? Most orthopedics is your people developing arthritis. It's the, you know, nursing along people who have a worn out joint and putting steroids into it until you replace the joint.

That's most orthopedics. Certainly we're never going to not need orthopedics to fix my broken bone or, you know, I, I, A couple months ago completely tore off my rotator cuff lifting and needed to be put back together. That wasn't going to be fixed by cellular medicine, but I can markedly improve the recovery doing those things

and prevent the outcome of progressive arthritis that occurs when we have, when we do surgeries on people.

So I, I think the difference is let's take away that, you know, orthopedists should, should fix your broken bone or put together a tendon that tore, you know, you tore your anterior cruciate ligament, fix it, but where we're failing. Is in all those other people who are simply, you have sore joints and they're being treated very poorly with the ultimate outcome being replaced the joint, which is, you know, I mean, is it, does it work sometimes, sometimes not.

So we're doing a lot of, a lot of things wrong in that world. And that's where they're not rock stars. They're rock stars. They're one little piece. Right.

Stephen McCain: Yeah, it's a really good point. A friend of mine, he works in medical sales and makes great money and his opinion, he does all these joint replacements and to me that stuff just seems like. Medieval medicine in a way. It's like, well, are we really doing it? 

Dr Yurth: you know. 

Stephen McCain: Yeah. I mean, when you look at like actually what they're doing, like this is kind of modern medieval practice.

And his opinion is by the time you're 60, this, you just start needing this. And I'm like, no, you don't.

Dr Yurth: And that's the whole problem. That's where, you know, where I started looking at orthopedics. This is not, we're not wearing out our joints. You don't

wear out your joint any more than you wear out your brain. Or you wear out your heart. It's an inflammatory disease. Just like all those other diseases just like brain diseases or heart diseases And so when you go in there and you're 50 years old and you tore the meniscus in your knee and your doc's like well Let's just go clean that up and trim it up I always tell people it's a lot like going in with your you know, your demented mother and And the doc going well, let's just trim out those bad parts of the brain.

That'll be good. She'll be fine That's exactly the same thing. So when you look at arthroscopic

surgery which has been banned in every other country over the age of 30. Nobody else will do it because the data is so compelling that it worsens arthritis. It's the number one surgery done here in the U. S.

for orthopedics is go up, clean out a joint, trim up a meniscus, and yet it leads to a rapidly progressive arthritis. British Medical Journal 2019 said there is no more data needed. We are There's so much data to support that this is a bad surgery doing bad things that they will not allow it. And yet we are doing it dime a dozen here.

And we're, so we're trying to treat an inflammatory disease process, which we well know now. Because now we have drugs and things like that that we know are working the inflammatory pathways that halt the arthritis and even reverse it. We, we know that we're dealing with altered inflammatory pathways and not just you wore out your joint because you were an athlete. You

know, 

Stephen McCain: It's so interesting, I'm definitely all, in on talking about this stuff because I've had both, uh, had two meniscus tears, one in each knee and they just trim around it and they cut that out and, and one of them I can, my knees a hundred percent, but the left one I'm starting to, I'm, I'm wondering if I have a little bit of some, muscle imbalance issues around it or if it's starting to slightly show a little, you know, a little bit of maybe pre arthritis or whatever, , arthritis.

I mean, it's not bad. I'm still feel pretty amazing.

Dr Yurth: do everything, but it's, but you know, but you've got a lot of years on it. So here's what we know about arthritis, right? So we

know that when you look at people who are developing arthritis, and it's most of those people who have, you know, who have painful joints, is it's a combination of factors.

There's genetic factors, and then there's injuries that can progress things. But when we get an injury, What is supposed to happen is our body comes in and it tries to clean things up, right? So best world you get this inflammatory reaction all these these These cytokines these pro these pro inflammatory enzymes come in hard at work and they try and clean stuff That should last a few days then those should turn off and we should turn on some healing processes, right?

Stephen McCain: Good 

Dr Yurth: necrosis factor alpha and interleukin 1 beta stay elevated and as a result, instead of just cleaning up a little debris, they just keep cleaning up.

So for instance, there's this pep, this, this enzyme called metallimatrix protease that is elevated initially in an injury. And it's kind of, I will, I like to think about the, you know, there was a crime in your house, and this is a cleanup crew to kind of get rid of all the signs that there was a crime there.

But if they keep scrubbing away the debris, what happens? They actually start scrubbing away the joint. So these very high levels of these metallomatrix proteases are really detrimental. to the cartilage, continue to progress. Let's say you tear your cartilage in your knee, right? And now somebody goes in scopes and they trim out that little torn piece, which temporarily is going to make you feel better, because the knee is going to feel more stable.

And these pro inflammatory enzymes come in, they start trying to help out, then they stick around a little bit too long. Now, you start actually, not just cleaning up what happened, cleaning up your own cartilage. So we know very well now, That in joints, we have very high levels of these enzymes. We have very high levels of these inflammatory cytokines and that if we block those that we actually halt And even reverse the arthritis.

So we need to stop thinking of this disease as an as a wear and tear. it is completely and utterly an inflammatory disease process. And so we are using a drug, a repurposed drug. It's called pentosine polysulfate, so pentosine polysulfate, which is in, in, been approved in Australia by a company called Paradigm Pharmaceuticals for, it's called Xylosol, and it's, it's in phase three trials here in the U.

S. to cure osteoarthritis. And in fact, in Australia, it's done just that. It's reduced the need for joint replacements by almost 90%. The one year follow up studies showed Almost 25 percent improvement in cartilage space for one, after one year on this drug, 25 percent improvement in cartilage space in an arthritic knee, whereas the placebo group had a 4 percent loss in cartilage space. So not only are we helping pain, but we're actually reversing the disease process. And that's all by

using a placebo drug. Drug that is blocking these inflammatory processes, right? So we know that we can reverse it by stopping the inflammatory process. You don't have to just, you know, uh, replace the knee joint.

We can actually reverse this process. So this drug's in phase three trials right now here in the U. S. We actually can get

it compounded because it is an orally available drug here in the U. S. Called Elmiron. So orally it's for bladder inflammation, but if you inject a little subq injection of it a couple of times a week, it actually works systemically and at a much lower dose, so systemically to actually stop this arthritic process.

And, and oftentimes within 12 weeks, people have reduction in pain. It takes longer to start seeing the changes in cartilage space and sometimes people, people take a little longer, but it's dramatic. And I've been on this. I have horrible arthritis in my knees. I tore my ACLs four times. I've, you know and so I, anybody who looked at my knees would say, Oh my God, just need joints replaced.

But I have zero pain. I'm totally functional because I've on this medication. I've

been on it for now three years. It's dramatically worsening. Now, I have lots of patients who we can treat for a short period of time and they get better. I kind of need it ongoing. If I don't take it, I start over time, over a few months, it'll start increasing a little bit of pain in my knee.

So I know that whatever my genetics are, uh, I, I, I need to block these enzymes. I need to block these cytokines that are doing the damage.

Stephen McCain: Yeah. Wow. 

Dr Yurth: in how we treat arthritis. It's getting, it'll get approval for knee osteoarthritis.

It's good for any kind of osteoarthritis and backs. So it did the same thing in a rabbit model. using Pentacin, they actually stopped disc degeneration. 

Stephen McCain: Wow.

Dr Yurth: and, and the drugs all been around since the 1980s, you know, as oral medications. So it's, you know, it's safety profile is good.

You know, it's been, and again, we're using a micro dose of what they have to use orally for bladder stuff.

So we're micro dosing it. It also very interestingly at a low dose orally. So we've also had a compounded as a very low dose orally, which doesn't work as well for osteoarthritis, but a low dose orally. It's really good for the gut, so people who have gut issues, it helps the gut, and it's a potent anti viral, anti cancer, and anti atherosclerotic agent.

So this is, because when you look, all these diseases have some overlap, 

Stephen McCain: Yeah, yeah, exactly. 

Dr Yurth: They're all inflammatory diseases, right? 

Stephen McCain: fantastic. I remember I saw your presentation on this at the World Peptide Congress this year and I was enamored because I've put a lot of, of, mileage, dynamic, dynamic mileage on my joints. And I have to take really good care of myself.

I, fortunately, I have pretty minimal pain, but I just think the, you know, this is like a perfect example of a repurposed drug doing something that is a huge need, right? And what was this thing you were saying though, in your speech about it potentially causing blindness if you took it for so long at such a dose.

Dr Yurth: So the big thing, so Elmoron, which is the drug, last 2020, I guess, or 2019, they put a black box warning on the drug and a lot of lawsuits went on because after this, but again, this drug's been around a long time, right? But they started to see an incidence of people who had a retinopathy that was associated. It was very unique retinopathy. They'd never seen it before, but it was causing damage to the retina of the eye and some people, progressive loss of vision. And what they found was it was a dose dependent. That's why it took so long to actually see this, because you had to be on the drug at a high enough dose for a long enough period of time.

And those people, when they looked at their eyes, so then they brought in asymptomatic people, people who had no problems with their vision.

but they looked at them and a small number of people, they did see these changes in the retina. So they said, Oh, big black box warning, big lawsuits went out on Elmoron and, you know, and it got prescribed less and less orally because of that.

Now, if you look at the true incidence of that, number one, you have to get to a High enough cumulative dose over a lifetime. So remember we're using a micro dose that dose is 500 milligrams done every day. We're using a micro dose of that using microgram dose of that or 25 milligrams orally and And not on an everyday basis.

So for us to ever hit the cumulative doses that was ever seem to be associated with this retinopathy would take you taking this drug regularly for about 80 years of your life. And, you know, maybe I'll be on it for 80 years. I don't know. Hopefully then we'll have a treatment for retinopathy. So, but

you know but so it got kind of overblown as things do here in the U.

S. Now, xylosol, if you look at the, the, FDA or the whole printout on the pharmaceutical xylosol, the injectable form of, of, of Elmoron or Pentacin. They left that off completely because we actually don't think it's going to be a risk factor done as the injectable. Now that may be a dose dependent thing, and it may be a difference in how it's metabolized, but it doesn't appear that it's going to cause the same problems, at least not with the animal studies.

They, they was not supported. So if you look at the package insert on xylosol, it doesn't say that. And it is funny when you look at Elmoron, even Which is widely used in other countries as well. They have no black box warning or no warning about the retinopathy. So that may be a little bit of a, you know, thing here because it's about 0001 percent of people that will develop this.

But we, our lawyers like that kind of stuff, right? You know, that, that's huge money when you get a group, group of enough people. of enough people who have a disorder and you can make a whole lot of money off of it from a drug company. So, you know, so I think we have to take that with a little bit of, Okay. yes, keep a Cautious eye, but not abandon this drug because of that. 

Stephen McCain: intended. And would there be a time where you'd want to go off of it? Like, is that, like you said, if you're shutting down some of these things that clean up, would you, like, if you, okay.

Dr Yurth: So it's not going to shut them down completely. It's going to help modulate. The occurrence of it,

right? So, so you can use it more as a modulatory agent, and then you can really being a clear, it's going to shut everything down. It's probably just not potent enough to do that.

And you don't do it every day. So you're doing it on an intermittent basis. So you're doing it, you know, once or twice a week, you're doing an injection. So we're probably not shutting it down continuously. Now I do tell people, When they, when they have surgery, number one, it's a weak blood thinner. So I tell them, stop it for, you know, a few days before surgery.

And I tell them to wait a few days till after surgery, pick, pick it. back up just for that very reason, just in case we want to, we want to sort of let that inflammation kind of come up a little bit more before. And so I do, I do utilize it that way. You know, I'll take people off for a few days around surgeries, things like that. 

Stephen McCain: makes perfect sense. So that's available. Someone could literally come to you and say, I'm suffering massively with arthritis. Can you help me?

Dr Yurth: and honestly, this, I will tell you, it's, it's been life changing for people. Really life

Stephen McCain: Okay, fantastic. Well, I mean, that is, that's a real piece of gold right there. And, and, uh, I would love to dive a little further on it, but there's so, you have so many pearls of wisdom. I, I did want to talk about this one M in A, uh, that 

Dr Yurth: Yeah. Let's talk about one, which is one methyl nicotinic acid and one MNA. So everybody now is very gigged out on NAD, right? You

all have heard about NAD and I think there's very little argument to say that NAD does not decline when we age and that replacing or getting more NAD is probably good for us. I don't think anybody would doubt it. And I know you had James, what's his name? The big

NMN guy. 

Stephen McCain: Shea Shea.

Dr Yurth: You know, and, and so who, who knows, because this is a field where every, all of us are going to be a little bit married to some of our opinions, but, you know, I come from everything, and this is my, you know, you work with Bill Seeds, my Bill Seeds training, coming from everything from a looking at pathways, and what are we doing, because, you know, Bill Seeds is very big on this, you know, you, you, you have to keep things homeostatic, and when we overdo, you take too many antioxidants, you do things, you're screwing up your cell.

Right? So now what are people doing? They're like, Oh, NAD is really important. We need a lot of NAD as we age. We're gonna have more energy if we have more NAD. That's the ultimate electron donor. We make more ATP. We have more energy. We know it declines as we age. We know energy declines as we age. Let's just give everybody NAD. so people are going in there doing these massive NAD infusions. Or the precursors like, NMN or nr, which are basically the same thing. In fact, prob probably a little better because really there's no evidence NAD can even get into the cell. You have to use one of the precursors to get into the cell. The problem is, I just tell people, it's a little bit like, why are n are NAD levels declining?

We actually don't make less NAD. So that's the well proven in mice models, that if you do like what's called a CD 38 knockout mouse, where they don't have the enzyme to degrade NAD, they don't lose NAD. So It's not that we really make less, at least not substantially, to some degree maybe yes. But what we do is we lose more.

So what happens is we get upregulation of several enzymes. I think Nicole Conlon in, in in her product which I'm blanking on the name on, where they use, she, she uses niacinamide and kind of a combination of blockers is probably the best kind of so far that we've done with this.

But basically the key is that if, if I give You a whole bunch of NAD and all you're doing Is turning on the enzymes that are degrading it.

What have I done? Have I really increased your NAD levels?

At 

Stephen McCain: charged those pathways, right? 

Dr Yurth: is you accelerate. Once you've gotten as much as you need, And we don't know what that is, right? I don't know how much you need.

Once you've got as much as you need, your body's pretty smart. So it's got to get rid of the excess. So it. does so by a couple of enzymes. And one of the main ones is CD38. And so people have said, okay, well, let's block CD38. That's a great thing, And it does, it helps. So blocking CD38, you can use things like epigenin to block CD38.

So you can block that drain. a little bit there, but body's still pretty smart. And so now it's like, okay, we still got too much of block CD38 and it goes down another pathway. And there's an enzyme called NNMT. And NNMT is really upregulated in cells that are not so happy, like your cancer cells, your senescent cells, your fat cells.

They have very high levels of NNMT. So now your body is, what your body is doing is it's, it's sensing there's, oh, there's a whole bunch of drain of NAD. It turns up NNMT. And interestingly, it does so to actually make another product called 1 MNA. This is all really technically difficult, sorry. Makes another product, 1 MNA.

So you're doing two things. You're making 1 MNA, which is trying to sort of help you. And you're feeding all these cancer cells, senescent cells. So NNMT, is being looked at very actively in the cancer world, because if you block NNMT, you seem to be able to reduce cancer cell metastasis. So there's a lot of work going on in that. realm. So, now we're giving people NAD, and NMN, and NR, while the rest of the cancer world's trying to block the enzyme that you just accelerated by doing that. Right? it's a little worrisome that the rest of the world who's in the traditional medicine cancer world is like, Ooh, block this enzyme, and we're doing things that are turning the enzyme up.

Stephen McCain: Yeah, well, let me, uh, I didn't mean to cut you off if you want to roll here, 

Dr Yurth: oh, go ahead. 

Stephen McCain: So you have, you have CD38 and NNMT, which are these two enzyme pathways that are and they each have their own sort of downstream effects. Usually you would do apigenin to kind of, tamper CD38 and you would use maybe 5 amino 1MQ for NNMT, right?

Do you, so does this 1 MNA help for both of those pathways or just the NNMT? 

Dr Yurth: So basically the feeling is that the, so the CD 38 is, is probably less important as a regulatory than as you get downstream to the NNMT. So 5:00 AM five amino one MQ is great because Five Amino does N one five amino. Does block n and mt and that's why it's so good for cancer and it's so good for producing more energy and And helps with weight loss, right the problem with if I block n and mt I will build up nad and I block the cancer cell growth But n and mt makes one mna and one mna is actually a really good thing It actually in and of itself helps cardiac function Uh helps lung function helps energy and metabolism.

So So now we've yes, we've blocked all the bad stuff You Right, but we've also blocked one of the good things. So a company in Poland, very small company in Poland, came up with a molecule, 1 MNA, which is basically just a food source, right, 1 acid. And they said, Oh, this, so when 1 MNA, so if you picture this pathway with NNMT going to 1 MNA or NMT going to cancer cells, right? If we, If

we give, if one, once 1 MNA gets filled up, it's going to turn off NNMT. It's like, Oh, I've got enough 1 MNA. I'm going to turn off NNMT. I've actually kept the good thing I need at 1MNA, because I'm giving it to you. I've blocked the bad thing, because I've blocked NNMT, right? 

Stephen McCain: Yeah.

Dr Yurth: than 5 amino 1 MQ. So

the problem with this company, which was making it in, in Poland, is they were trying to get it to the US as a drug. Because it's, it's really good for cardiac stuff. It's really good for obesity. It's really good for cancer. So they've been trying for the past few years to bring it to the U. S. as a drug. So they were, they were starting some, some trials on it for a drug. And so they would not sell it to the U. S. as a supplement. So, so when we came across 1MNA, we're like, my God, it does exist. Somebody makes it, but

it was this little pharmaceutical company who would not sell it to us in the U. S. So we're like, damn, you know, can't get it, impossible to get. And so we spent a few years flying to Poland and meeting with this company and finally kind of hit him at the right point where, and what we told them was, listen, it's going to take you 15 years to ever get this thing through the FDA.

And then you're gonna have to get physicians adopted to it. Which might, might not be that easy. We'll, we'll help you utilize, you know, get this here as a supplement, because we had some work with working with some other international companies to help people transport stuff, get things to the U. S. So we had some expertise in that realm, not me, but another company I work with.

And And so they finally, and I think we kind of, because we like been these discussions for a while. I think we finally kind of hit them at a point where probably they financially were getting like, Hmm, maybe we need to think about something

else. I don't know. We finally, you know, got, got them compelled by saying, okay, let's just keep this as a supplement. So it's taken two years. We finally have it to the U S as a supplement. It should actually be available. If you guys go to just one m and a. com it should be available as a supplement. I'm, I don't know for sure, but I think the company says in, in, within a

Stephen McCain: It's now, it's now 

Dr Yurth: it's now, is 

Stephen McCain: I was wait, literally waiting to purchase it until I had this conversation with you because I, I saw your talk and I, and I was. It was like,

Dr Yurth: yet to, to, to,

us and, you know, and Bill seeds, and he's actually the, as usual, the first one to kind of turn me onto this, but, you know, it is sort of the answer to all this NAD, because we do need more NAD, but we need to do it in a safe fashion and all you guys who are doing. NAD infusions and taking tons of NR and NMN.

And like I said, that's why, you know, I got into a big argument you know, and, and his argument was, I feel better. Everything's better. It's obviously working. And I, I think the problem is that you will temporarily potentially feel better. You're also releasing a lot of. Some inflammatory proteins when these senescent cells get turned on.

And sometimes that actually gives you a little bit of a rush. It's when people

like doing NAD infusion, like, Oh, I felt all this rush of energy. It's actually not necessarily a good thing. It's because you had this rush of inflammatory stuff that was released from the senescent cells, because you just fed a whole bunch of senescent cells, exactly what they wanted to grow.

So I think you have to be really aware and cautious. And I think, you know, the problem is that we're doing a lot of things that we're, we don't know enough about. And I think this is a place where we're, we're, we're doing harm. And believe me, I, you know, I, I, I'm just as guilty. I was doing a lot of NMN and NR and, you know, and recommending that stuff. You know, I always did it with a CD38 blocker. So do you need the CD38 blocker? I don't know the clear answer to that. I take both, so I take, I'm going to take one MNA and a CD38 epigenin, because I feel like, Okay. that's probably my best way of keeping these stores really perfect. On the upside, CD38 doesn't form anything bad, right?

Although it's draining some of your NAD, it's not forming anything bad, and I am getting the NAD up by the one MNA, so I may not need it.

Stephen McCain: Yeah, it 

Dr Yurth: for sure. 

Stephen McCain: might be nice to offer an escape route if it needs 

Dr Yurth: Right. That's exactly right. Like, is that maybe the escape valve that maybe, you know, this is, I, I do have too much, you know, uh, in the, in that re, you know, reaction, reaction phase. Maybe that's a nice little, you know, thing, because where I get more concerned about is this downward pathway that's feeding the senescent cells.

And CD38 doesn't appear to have that same downward spiral unless it. goes down from, you know, CD 38 down to NNMT. So I kind of think that blocking that downstream will probably be good enough. And maybe you're right. Maybe the keeping the CD 38 turned down or maybe doing it intermittently,

right? Like doing things intermittently,

Stephen McCain: Yeah. Yeah. And do you get, do you know if you get the same muscle benefits of 1MNA as you do with 5 Amino 1MP? Because you get this like stem cell activation of muscles, like, or some.

Dr Yurth: should do exactly the same thing. In fact, even better. It's 

Stephen McCain: All right.

Dr Yurth: So look, and if you look at the data, so there's, there's a really good study on long COVID improving endurance and long COVID

with one MNA that, that came out last year, that, was very compelling. There's a really good.

Study on cardiac output. But the long COVID study showed significant improvement in muscle strength, at least in the long COVID group. Now, in someone like you, who's already optimized, will we see that not sure we'll see it as massively, but it should have the same benefits. You're doing the same thing, except I think better than the 5 amino is.

Stephen McCain: That's fantastic. Okay. So one, so we go to one M N a. com. I was literally just there yesterday. I think you right now you have to buy it by the case, but

Dr Yurth: I don't think,

Well, 

Stephen McCain: Well, either way it's available and I'm buying it because, 

Dr Yurth: I mean, physician, so it will be, so it's going to be, so there may be, you may have to go to a different site as an individual person. So so the, because the one MNA site may be for practitioners. 

Stephen McCain: It.

Dr Yurth: I think that you may have to go to, to what's called OHPHealth. com. If you log in there, then I think you can, that's why I've been sending my patients to buy an individual site.

Stephen McCain: Okay.

Dr Yurth: know, individual supplements

because the one m& a maybe for the physician site they are trying to keep it within more of a professional line, but you can especially if you're under physicians care so if you log in and you're under physicians care, usually you can buy it through the ohphealthsite.

Stephen McCain: Okay. Got it. Yeah. Well, and, and whatever I dig up, I'll put in the show notes for people that, 

Dr Yurth: Yeah, I can, I can, I can hook you up to the people from that, from who can answer those questions too.

Stephen McCain: Okay. Fantastic. Well, I, I, I, I am excited to, cause you know,

Dr Yurth: I will tell you from my perspective. So, you know, I basically brought back a suitcase from Poland when we went there. So I had a supply for a while. And it definitely improved like energy levels muscle strength, but definitely endurance for me, which is what

I find with 5 Amino.

I'm not sure it improves my muscle strength as much. It improves my glucose control and it improves my endurance. And that's what I found with one MNA.

Uh, I didn't find, I mean, did you find with one five amino that you improve muscle mass,

Stephen McCain: So, what I have found with it, I, I've always kind of recommended it to people like when they first start a new strength building routine. They're getting it started, they're gonna do some weights and every time I just, I think it's a nice spark because I have noticed that sometimes when you start and you're really rusty and you feel like you have no activation in your muscles, you're like, God, these things aren't even working.

But I have found with 5 Amino 1MQ, I just feel like I get a little bit more neural activation in some capacity. And I've also noticed the fat, you know, sort of the fat burning effect or whatever. It's, it seems to have this muscle building and fat burning thing.

Dr Yurth: it definitely has fat burning effects when you block five of me and when you block in an empty you definitely get fat burning effects because you, you're stabilizing metabolic control and you definitely, any of you guys who have more of a, you know, insulin issues at all, uh, or, or. are on the heavier side. It's, it is, it can be definitely helpful for weight loss because it's normalizing metabolic control so well.

Stephen McCain: Yeah, and it is expensive. So this one M& A is, 

Dr Yurth: yeah, 5 amino is outrageously pricey. I

mean, it is, it is really, I mean, probably less so from research chemical sites, but from our compounding pharmacies, not cheap.

Stephen McCain: yeah, well, I mean, I, this is so, 

Dr Yurth: we're super excited

about this, honestly. I mean, it's been a long time coming and, you know and, And I think we're going to you know, I think that it is, it is like five, you know, like more of an exercise memetic. So it does kind of act like you're exercising for you. The, they, they showed in, in the long COVID people, dramatic improvement in like their six minute walk test, uh, their quad strength improved dramatically.

And I know a lot of people, you know, some people not even aware of it, how much COVID or sometimes COVID vaccine has done in terms of their, their Their quality of life in terms of endurance and strength. A lot of people have gotten hit by that. I you know, my practice is now full of long COVID people. Uh, I mean, that's been a bad problem,

Stephen McCain: Yeah, and I've seen, I've seen people complaining that we're really optimal individuals. Like at first I kind of thought it would maybe just be for like the metabolically challenged or people that were really out of shape and

Dr Yurth: these are really healthy people.

You know, I've had some really high level athletes who have just been down and out, you know, since COVID,

 There's mitochondrial dysfunction that COVID causes is, is, you know, the hair loss, the hair loss clients have gone rampant now because of hair loss post COVID. It's all some, you know, a mitochondrial loss.

You know, it's, it's done a lot of, you know, ongoing damage.

Stephen McCain: Yeah, it's not funny. You can end up chasing your tail for a whole year. And so I, I really think that's when you got to find someone like yourself that really knows these pathways. And I mean, you just dropped two golden nuggets of this penicillin polysulfate is one MNA. And, and you talk about how.

 Everyone was doing these, you know, it started with these massive NAD infusions and it got into the precursors because of David Sinclair. And then now I think there's like the third phase and you know, in the beginning, I came into this thing as a, I guess you would call it a biohacker, and now as I've sort of matriculated and and I've tried my best to do as much as I can to learn these pathways or listen to people that know these pathways.

But I just find that you, as you matriculate, you go up, you start getting up into the functional medicine and all the protocols that all the, the doctors like you are doing, because that's really where you want to play at. Those are the people that you really want to learn from because you talk about these cellular pathways.

And I'd like for you just to take a moment to explain that as maybe if someone doesn't understand, cellular health, because if you optimize a cell, you optimize, uh, the body. Right. So maybe if you could just kind of like explain why this is so important right now to look at the stuff this way. Okay.

Dr Yurth: in it. And, but where it lies

different even from what, you know, sort of our functional message.

So if you think about traditional medicine, it was, it's a disease focused, right? It's Okay. You have this disease. These are our protocols we do to treat this disease, right? You have diabetes. This is the protocol you have, you know, heart disease. This is the protocol. So everything's very protocol driven.

And, and then we've got, we went, people went, Oh, that's not the way we should be functional medicine, right? Let's look more deeper. What is causing that person to have diabetes and let's treat more functionally, right? Where did things go go awry if you've looked at. You know, and this is the hardest thing I think in training physicians or training my clients, is that when you go, you know, a little deeper than that.

What everybody still wants is protocols. Okay. so now You

have diabetes, here's your protocol, you're gonna take Berberine and you're gonna, You know, exercise this and, you know, and you're like, well, I guess if that didn't work for me, why didn't that work for me? Right. So protocol driven medicine, which unfortunately is what doctors like, because it's really nice to have a cookbook. Well, okay. Now I have this, you know, I'm there. So they've got metabolic dysfunction. Here's my protocols. And, you know, and there's a lot of, and it's one of the things like A4M teaches a lot of protocols and people like protocols.

I get it. It's easy. The problem is protocols don't always work. And so what you have to go back down to is at the cellular level, What pathway starved you down that road?

And that's where you have to relearn biochemistry and nobody wants to relearn biochemistry. We all hated biochemistry the first time, right? You know, somebody told me actually the Krebs cycle was important. I was like, Oh God, you know, and now I literally spend all day long trying to learn new pathways because every year we discover new pathways.

So I can actually look at a disease and say, okay, this, weird pathways, something called like the sea gas sting pathway. These weird ass pathways are what actually are starting this process of you going down this road. So now I have to actually go back to where in this pathway that's gonna wry in you. Do I need to intervene?

Stephen McCain: Okay.

Dr Yurth: So it's really looking at these,

these, this pathway driven inside the cell, these pathway different driven responses that are causing the underlying metabolic dysfunction, which caused the diabetes, you know, and, and diving down that, that level. And there's not protocols to treat that because everybody's going to be a little bit different, but I can say, Okay. wow, all these things are going on.

I'm I know it must be a dysfunction at, you know, 

Stephen McCain: Yeah. 

Dr Yurth: say not even complex, but some of the simple things, and it's not easy and it's not protocol driven and it takes tons and tons of time and research and education to do.

So it's not for everybody, but ultimately it's going to be what makes us be able to heal hard to heal people or. Really truly prevent disease because if I keep all my cell pathways going the right direction if everything's working Right, then I won't develop this or this or this but it's so incredibly complex Steven And I will tell you like I said, you know Some of these pathways like like the sea gas sting pathway, which honestly if you you look at it It's it's a route at a whole bunch of different diseases and yet we it was discovered in 2019

I mean, so you can't hang your head on the things you learned in medical school 30 years ago, because every year we're discovering some new pathway, some new mechanism, and you have to keep up on it.

So it takes tons of reading, takes some of the time, but it's so much fun because then I can look at, okay. This person is exhibiting all these things. It must be a defect here in this pathway. Now, what can I use? Be it a peptide, be it a repurposed drug, be it a supplement, be it a change in their exercise routine, that will actually alter that specific pathway and cure a whole host of dysfunction in their body.

Down that road. Right. So it's super fun to do, but you know, but you'll

go down these rabbit holes of researching things for, you know, eight hours at night because you're like, Oh my God, you know, where can I, where can I make a change here and how do I change this? And sometimes it's super simple things, right?

Like a baby aspirin and how much you can do with a baby aspirin a day. You

Stephen McCain: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's fascinating. I've been at the World Pet Pad Congress for a couple of years now. I sat there and I mean, I got to speak at it this year, but before I was in the back, just wide eyed and just learning in Jesus, these, these, these people are, you're speaking a different language.

I call it. Do you speak cell? That's usually what I tell 

Dr Yurth: I like that.

Stephen McCain: you know, I'm good friends with, you know, Sandra Kaufman. Yeah, so she, you know, she speaks cell and every time she explains something, she's speaking through. So, like for me, I'm always striving, striving to, to, to learn as much as I can about these pathways.

And because I, I understand that the people that understand the pathways are the people that probably understand some issue.

Dr Yurth: Right,

Stephen McCain: The best, at least that's the best snapshot we have right now. We don't have, we don't, can't look quantumly at the issue yet, you know, but we can look at it, you know.

Dr Yurth: AI is going to make this even better and better, right, when we can actually now feed along and say, okay, this is in that pathway where you need to intervene, you

know, and then, and then I can say, okay, give me a list of the drugs that might potentially do that. And, you know, and be able to pull more of those people, people always, I hear this from all my patients, right?

Oh, I don't want a pharmaceutical. Pharmaceuticals are not evil. I mean, they're, Okay. There's a lot you could do with pharmaceutical drugs, you know, that, that is great. And, and people, you know, people are willing to take a list this long of supplements because they think they're safer. And I'm like, actually, I probably have one pharmaceutical drug that may actually address all those pathways that you just are trying to treat with your 15 different supplements.

So a lot of it's like repurposing drugs. I,

you know, I love that because a lot of these drugs. They're around. They are safe. They are good, you know, and, and, you know, so for instance, there's a drug we use a lot called amlexinox. And amlexinox is, uh, it was approved for aphthous ulcers for canker sores as a topical.

So it's called Apsol and it was approved for canker sores. And then the little company that made it really didn't go very far with it. So it sort of got abandoned, but what it does, the pathways it works on, And if you look at it, you know, there's a great article on, is this the, you know, is this sort of the cure all for everything, because if you look at the pathways it works on, it's incredibly, incredibly, the number of diseases from autoimmune to cancer to

hypertension, to obesity, that you can treat with this, this drug, that now, because it was, It's available. the compounds available and you know, and Lexox is available in the US. So we have a compounding pharmacist, make it into a supplement, into a basic tablet for us and people can, can only take it. And I will tell you, it can be remarkably life changing for people from an autoimmune disease, things Like that.

It is, it is frankly a remarkable drug. It's a re another repurposed medication, but when you know, This pathway is really important. Here's a drug that actually addressed that pathway used for a completely different purpose. I can now pull that in and do a whole lot of things. So when you understand these pathways, now I can search for things.

I can say, okay, I need this pathway altered at this spot. Give me the, drugs that do it. And you know, and And technology has allowed us now to really be able to come up with a list where I can feed that into chat GPT. And it's going to say, okay, these are the drugs that have been discovered that work there.

And, you know, now I can play with that. So, so don't close your mind to all the things that really medicine has and is available if we use them in the right way,

Stephen McCain: Yeah, yeah, I remember for like years ago, I kind of went through this phase where I was like, Oh no, I don't do 

Dr Yurth: I'm not going to take a drug. 

Stephen McCain: And then, you know, Hey, I take, you know, five milligrams of Cialis every day because it improves my blood 

Dr Yurth: that opens your blood vessels, reduces your risk of dementia, helps prevent stroke. Right.

Yeah.

It's not for your erections. It's because, you know, I put almost all my patients, women and men. on five milligrams of Cialis, because if you look, dementia risk is reduced, hypertension risk is reduced, cardiovascular disease is reduced, all by taking five milligrams of this simple drug.

Exercise performance is, you know, is

reduced. Why it's banned is it wanted to ban drug, right? Because it actually has significant benefits on exercise performance. So, you know, those are exactly, you know, your patients are like, what? I take five milligrams of Cialis every day? I'm like, yeah.

Stephen McCain: Yeah, I mean, I consider that to be a, uh, operating system upgrade because you improve, improve blood flow to

Dr Yurth: Improve blood flow. Right.

Stephen McCain: every organ, everything 

Dr Yurth: right. Exactly. Every organ. And your brain being a big one, right?

Stephen McCain: Yeah, so like I've completely opened my mind up to this stuff and the beauty about this off Label usage is the fact that it's already gone through all the 

Dr Yurth: It's already gone through the testing.

Right. Exactly.

It's like, you know, you've already got the safety data there, you know,

uh, more so than a lot of supplements do.

Stephen McCain: Yeah, oh, yeah, well especially you Jesus yeah the supplements it can That's like a wild wild west.

You know, I 

Dr Yurth: right. 

Stephen McCain: Yeah. I mean, this is fascinating. We're 46 minutes into it and I'm like, Oh God, we haven't even gotten into like peptides for crying out loud, but I mean, look, I, it's let me ask you this. What are your thoughts on hormones? Cause a lot of these people that, that speak cell, these doctors, they're like, well, if you optimize the cell, you don't need hormones.

And I'm like, really? Like on all cases, you know, like, you know,

Dr Yurth: Yeah, I, I will tell you, I, I don't agree that I mean, we know that our hormones decline if I optimize the cell, can I keep my hormones hormone levels up to where they were when I was 20, you know, I, I will challenge that. You know, I'll, you know, and I know, you know, you and I are very fond of Bill Seeds and he's very much speaks that you don't need to do these things.

You can do everything by itself. Optimization. I don't see it. I think that, you know, we were just talking about that recently because. he said nobody needs thyroid medication. I'm like, there are people who need thyroid medication. You know,

you know, so I, uh, my belief is that you, you need to, You need to try and keep the body in a state, you know, even when our cells were working great, we're 18 years old, right?

And everything generally was working well. Our hormones started to decline. Our hormones started to decline early, right? Our hormones

started to decline in our early twenties. I mean, 25, you know, you start dropping your hormones down. By 30, you're on the, the downward slope

and, you know, and that's not just cell health.

It's just what happens in terms of some of our organ decline. Can we maintain that better with doing some things? Yes, we can. We can lengthen it out. Can we get them? back to where they were. I don't think so. So I'm a little bit of the belief that I'm going to replace everything that I definitely am losing.

Right. And that's going to help my cell function better. So I'm going to go on the reverse that I can improve cellular function and cellular pathways if my hormones are there. Maybe I can reduce the dose of the hormones as the cell functions better. But you know, Yeah. Peptides in our body decline as we age.

We know that, that BPC, which is an endogenous peptide that our gut makes, that those levels decline as we age. Even if I keep myself healthy, those levels decline as we age. So do our thymic peptides. We don't have thymus glands. There's nothing. That maintaining Your cell health is going to do to give you back a thymus gland It's not. Your thymus gland is at its biggest at puberty, and then it starts shrinking down. And, you know, by your time in my age, it's a little fatty nub that's not making thymic peptides anymore.

So I'm not getting thymosin beta 4, which helps me with growth and recovery, or thymosin alpha 1, which helps my immune system.

You know, and improving the cells is not going to all of a sudden make my thymus gland regenerate. Or my pineal gland not calcified. We can help it, but those things, so Yeah. So my feeling is, you know, your pineal gland calcifies, you need to give epitalin. Your, my, your, your your thymus gland is going away, you need to give thymic peptides or thymic bioregulators.

You know, periodically to keep that function going. That you don't have anymore because you don't have it. Your ovaries are not going to work as well. Do I think you need hormones? Your testicles are not going to work as well. Yes. I think men, most men are going to benefit from testosterone and estrogen and progesterone and, and, you know, and I, you know, and, and I, I'm going to have to say, I think that's, what's going to

help keep my cellular mechanisms going as a, as opposed to vice versa.

Stephen McCain: I couldn't agree with you more. Granted, I'm not some doctor or whatever, but I've paid attention 

Dr Yurth: Right. 

Stephen McCain: and I've, I've paid attention through the point where I'm about turn 50 and I have, you know, there's these. Cycles of being alive that these things start to shut down or, you know, you become, uh, resistant to anabolic signaling.

You don't fold proteins as well. You, you don't make as much stuff. I mean, it, it all starts to cascade into something. And, you know, my opinion is, you know, I look at hormones as a communication system. I'm like, do you remember what it was like to be on dial up? I don't want to be on dial up. I want to be on broadband.

Like I want, yeah. You know, when the, I want the muscles to get the signal, Hey, let's grow. It's time. I just worked out like, let's do this, you know? And but I, I, I see a lot of that and it's refreshing to hear your opinion that, that kind of feels like intuitively, like where I'm at, you know, that you have to just start propping the body up as it ages with all 

Dr Yurth: Yeah, exactly. Again, it's the replace what you're losing bit, right?

I'm going to replace those things that I'm, I'm losing with time. And, and that's, I mean, you know, can you keep growth hormone levels up? I mean, even, you know, if seeds is in that, he fixes the

cell and everything gets better, then why do you need growth hormone secretogogs, right?

But, you know, People need growth hormone secretogons or, you know, to keep growth hormone levels up. I, I think that hormone levels are going to decline even in the face of self. And again, I, I think that if you look at a lot of cellular mechanisms that even like mitochondria are going to, they function better with estrogen. So you need some estrogen for mitochondrial function to be better. So I, I think that, that there's a piece there of, I don't think you're going to independently fix the cell. Cool. And. All these hormones pick back up. I just don't think that's the way our bodies are designed.

Stephen McCain: yeah, yeah, I, I, 

Dr Yurth: But who knows? Maybe we'll learn more in a few years.

Stephen McCain: yeah, maybe this is the NAD precursor 

Dr Yurth: we just, right. We just keep learning and changing our protocols as time goes on. For now, I'm using, I'm using hormones.

Stephen McCain: Yeah, I I've used HCG for a monotherapy for because I was trying to, maintain my fertility and I've started to see I had this guy on the podcast. It hasn't been released yet. This guy, uh, Zach and and he was basically he can.

He's been turning menopausal women back and making them fertile by putting stem cells in their, their ovaries. And, and he has some shows, gave me some science that shows that the longer you can maintain your fertility, the longer you will live.

Dr Yurth: That's exactly right. Yeah. There's a lot of research going on in that realm, but that's, you know, and that's like rapamycin showed that too, right? That, that women, that, that at least in animal studies, that rapamycin maintained fertility, at least started early enough, and it made fertility much longer, at least in mice.

Stephen McCain: What is your opinion on rapamycin, because I have it and I'm, I'm like, I read a book on it and I've, uh, you know, I was just about to do it and I had this little pink eye thing or whatever. I'm like, well, I'm not going to shut down my immune system for a day, to, to do this. But what is your opinion on it?

Dr Yurth: So, you know, most of the research on rapamycin has come from Mikhail Blagoslanyi, who is very well researched in this area. And, you know, and he has some really good articles out there to really show that this is not an immune. Suppressing agent unless you dose it at an immunosuppressive

dose. So if we're using it for cancer or we're using it to keep you from rejecting your transplanted kidney and you have to use it at immunosuppressive doses, but at a low dose, it is an immune modulating agent. And I think the data is Pretty damn compelling that it is one of the few longevity agents that we've, we have some pretty good evidence to support, right?

At least in every other animal model.

Unfortunately, like Matt Cabralins, you see this today, Matt Cabralins, who was doing a big, huge study on rapamycin in dogs, you know, the dog aging project.

And so everybody had their dog on rapamycin and it's been really a compelling project. And, and, and. Doing very well in the FDA for some reason, just shut it down. Who knows

why their infinite wisdom. Yeah. But 

Stephen McCain: That must mean it works.

Dr Yurth: you know, but yeah, I mean, I think the data is pretty convincing. I think what we don't know is what the proper doses for us as humans.

So most, you know, most of the longevity docs I know are taking five, six milligrams once a week. But there's people who are doing it higher, there's people who are doing it, you know, one week out of every month. Nobody really knows the answer to how we're dosing.

The five to six milligrams is based more on sort of our animal or mouse studies. Do we need more? We just don't know. So I think at this point, most longevity docs have kind of jumped on board with rapamycin. I take it, you know, I take it once a week. I think that it makes sense when you look at sort of, I want to just shut off mTOR periodically.

I want to, you know, have a sort of cleanup. I think that They're the evidence is pretty convincing. I, I think, are we dosing it enough to do anything? I don't know the answer to it. Blake Ascolani thinks not. He thinks here in the U. S. we're probably not dosing it high enough. He doses it much higher in himself.

So I don't know the answer to that. So I probably playing on the conservative side and we'll have to see, you know, it's just going to take a lot of time and research to figure it out. At this point. By what data we have, it looks good. And I think it's very safe. I think it's not immunosuppressive. I, you know, I, I don't ever get sick.

I take rapamycin. I, you know, I think that it has good immune modulating properties. I, I will see a bump up cholesterol. That's probably the biggest negative

is it 

Stephen McCain: Oh, really, it does.

Dr Yurth: So you will see a bump up cholesterol in some people. It's usually not the ApoB that gets bumped up.

It's usually just the total cholesterol. So I'm usually ApoB, which is the bad. Player remember all of you guys who are testing cholesterol. Don't look at your cholesterol. Look at your apob I don't care if your cholesterol is 300 you want your apob

low and so, you know, look at your apolipoprotein b.

That's the number you need to focus on And keep that low keep that at least below 90 if you know, but Even lower, probably better. There's data now that shows that there's no too low level that's good, but you want a nice high cholesterol, 200, 250, you want that. So, so the question is, you know, is it doing anything bad or is it really just benefit Venus in raising cholesterol?

But if you go to your doctor who doesn't look at ApoB and just looks at cholesterol and all of a sudden your cholesterol is 300, they're like, oh my God, you know. So sometimes, you know, you will see that in

Stephen McCain: Yeah, well, I think if anybody has learned anything from this and they, if someone, whoever's listening to this probably already kind of knows what I'm about to say, but in listening to you, and that there are these doctors that understand this cellular pathways, you know, God, I, I, if anybody's listening to this podcast and they're still in the traditional medical system, let this be, your notice right now that like, Hey, there is a much better way to do things.

And, and, you know, there's just, I mean, you're, and it's your life for crying out 

Dr Yurth: right. I think that's the hardest thing. I mean, you know, you and I spent a lot of money on this stuff, right?

People, you know, I know you've talked to Brian Johnson and you, you know, you guys have interacted and, you know, and people are like, Oh, we spend 2 million a year. How stupid is that? I'm like, I have patients who spend 2 million a year on their stupid horses.

I mean, you know, it's like, To me, it's like, I, you know, I have

patients all the time who, they come in and see me, who have plenty of money, believe me, and I recommend these protocols that are not inexpensive, you're right, and they drive out in their Lexus, you know, to get their 9 Starbucks coffees and, and I think we've got to learn to prioritize that this money spent on health is the most important place to put your money. I mean, it's probably where most of my ancillary income goes. Unfortunately, probably I have no social life or anything. I just take a lot of supplements and peptides.

Stephen McCain: It's the same person, I mean, we're all cut from the same 

Dr Yurth: Who needs friends? 

Stephen McCain: Yeah. Oh my goodness. 

Dr Yurth: got peptides. You know, But it's, you know, I think that is a place where people are still in this paradigm of, well, insurance doesn't cover that and it's a lot of money. And, you know, and I think if once you're sick, I mean, I've had cancer patients stage four cancer. Now they're willing to put in whatever amount of money it takes to stay alive.

Right.

But what we need to do is put in whatever money it takes to stay healthy, you know, within our means, obviously, whatever money it takes to stay healthy, starting before we get sick, which is

Stephen McCain: Yeah.

Dr Yurth: thing to convince people of.

Stephen McCain: And look, most people are on the financial investment track that they believe in compounded interest, right? That, that they're gonna, they're gonna put so much money away every month and over time, they're gonna benefit from the compounding interest. Well, my opinion is, okay, you spend a little bit of money.

Uh, up front on all this pay as you go stuff to be, and it's not a ton as you're, you know, in your twenties, as you get, as you get older, it will get more, but if you can get 10 more usable, productive 

Dr Yurth: healthy years.

where you feel good and active and you know,

Stephen McCain: That, that is going to add to the compounding interest of time. So, you can make it up on the back end, but also at the same time, I don't ever really want to retire.

I always want to be doing what I'm doing. And if I can be totally, that's why everyone's talking about health span, you know, like if I can just be like full faculties till I'm, till the day I, you know, you know.

Dr Yurth: We want to just do this and then die, right?

This is what most of us do. Right.

And at the end, the last 10 years, and any of you have gone through, I've gone through aging parents, my parents lived into their nineties, but it was not a good last few years, right? It was,

you know, not easy, right? For anybody. And that's what we really want to avoid. We want to go like this and then boom, fall off a cliff. Right.

Stephen McCain: Yeah, exactly. I mean, and, and it's funny 'cause you look at like Suzanne Summers who died and people were like, uh, what, what happened? You know, what happened? And I, and I kind of thought about that. I was like, huh, health Span. She just, eh, eh, you know, it was like, uh.

Dr Yurth: Yeah. I mean, she was doing pretty, I mean, she was really good for, you know, really until her cancer came back and, you know, and she, I think her last really month wasn't good or even a few weeks, honestly, but she was doing podcasts right up until like, it was a little shock to me. I was like, Oh my God, I just saw her podcast like

a week 

Stephen McCain: Yeah, to me, I was like, there's a perfect, you know, sort of, I'm not perfect, I mean, but there's a, there's sort of like at least a, a, a semblance of this 

Dr Yurth: Yeah. She looks good. She felt good. She was having sex. She was, you know, exercising, she was doing podcasts. She was interacting with her family,

you know, you know, unfortunately cancer got her and maybe that could have been. dealt with in a different way,

but you know but you know, that you're right, that she was, she was really an epitome.

It's funny when I first, at A4M, she was a guest speaker. I don't know, a few years ago, it was a while ago. Maybe three, four years ago. And I was like, oh my God, Suzanne Summers. All right. Suzanne Summers is a guest speaker. She was really compelling. Right. I don't agree with everything she does. But she was very compelling as a speaker of, you know, exactly that, that she is, you know, and her, and her husband, you know, Alan is like, like, I don't know, 89 years old and the guy, you know, they're still talking about having sex and running around naked and, you know, you know, and, and all the stuff that we all want to be doing when we're 90 years old and wheelchairs being pushed around our nursing homes.

Stephen McCain: I went and saw, Two years ago, I saw the Rolling Stones here in Vegas, and Mick Jagger was 78 at the time. And, and I, we, me and my friend were joking before they came out that they were gonna be wheeled out, they were gonna be propped up on all this stuff and be super geriatric and the whole time at dinner we're joking, making, making as many jokes about that as it was a running joke and.

And I know human bodies well. I can watch when someone moves. I can tell if they have hip pain, ankles, bad knees. I've, I've, I've studied people moving for years when you just coach and do gymnastics. Nothing. He Besides his face, which clearly has age, I couldn't see anything that was any different than when he was in his prime.

Dr Yurth: He's like, no,

Stephen McCain: Metabolically super fit and his movements, he had other moves. I was, I literally, I cried. My friend was taking social media things and posting the whole time. And I'm sitting there with tears in my eyes. Cause I'm like, this is so inspiring because for some, 

Dr Yurth: do that. Right. 

Stephen McCain: Cause like for me, 

Dr Yurth: he didn't even take care of himself. So

Stephen McCain: Yeah, I mean, those guys were, I, I, weren't they doing blood transfusions?

Cause they were doing so many drugs between concerts, like back in the day. I mean, Jesus. Well, Look, I, I, I, we, we've, we've covered some good stuff. I wanted to ask you, is there anything that you are seeing that's kind of coming or is there anything you've come across that maybe you haven't necessarily we haven't spoken about, or you haven't made a lecture about, or maybe it's, you know, like, I mean, there's some interesting things out there and I'm always curious what, what people maybe are kind of dabbling in that, that no one knows about.

Okay.

Dr Yurth: And I think that that

might be a player like this. so this is something called Glectin 3 is elevating a lot of bad diseases, but particularly in Alzheimer's. And Glectin 3 may be more the etiology of Alzheimer's, but keep blaming amyloid, probably not amyloid. It's probably this Glectin This company is making this antibody to galactin 3, and we're actually signing up as a research trial center to do this, they're only approving it for Alzheimer's right now, but if you start looking at this, and you look at galactin 3 in obesity, in cancer, in, in most of the disease of aging, it's elevated, and so can We now take these drugs that are antibodies to these molecules that we're, we're making in, you know, too much of and start binding out some of these bad things and really treat diseases.

So I think some of the focus we're going to start seeing a little bit is going to be on some of these immune modulating things, using antibody therapies to actually, Uh, you know, for cancers and things like that. I think that that's probably where we're going to, where this focuses. I mean, the, the results, Steve, you should have seen some of these videos of these Alzheimer's patients with just like one or two infusions of this antibody to bind the scolectin three. They went from one guy they interviewed. Didn't even know his daughter's name sitting next to him. You know, two months later they interview him. He's like, yeah, you know, he's talking like a normal person. He's like, I'm actually driving a little bit, driving short distances to the store. It was remarkable.

and they had, you know, they had case after case like this. you know, nothing of that. you know, I, have I ever seen that you had that. those kinds of results. And I think as we start looking at things like that, well, where else can we start using the same, that, that same technology, you. know, as time goes on, you. know, the biggest thing is so many of these things are so pricey, so expensive that makes it hard.

But I think That's something we're going to start seeing is where can we start using some of these antibodies against bad things that you know, so as we, we can do things like with you know, looking at metabolomics and looking at abnormal proteins that are being expressed now saying, okay, this person's doing. This very, their body's doing this very poorly and now I can form an antibody that stops that, that from having any kind of bad effects and then work upstream to try and fix why the bad effect occurred.

So I think we're starting to see a lot more of this immunotherapies and treating all sorts of diseases, cancers, Alzheimer's, probably obesity,

and, and that'll be a cool place to keep an eye on,

Stephen McCain: Yeah, it's almost like a alternative instead of gene therapy, doing it at the, at the source, you're basically just doing it at the, uh, the metabolite, like 

Dr Yurth: right. A a

little farther down the road. And I think gene therapies, I mean, you know, I, you know, if I could afford FALs statin gene therapy, I think that's pretty cool. Right. You know you know, 

Stephen McCain: Would you do the 

Dr Yurth: you know, I dunno if I would do it just yet, but I mean, I heard Liz Parrish speak at Rad Fest. I mean, she did it years ago.

Right. 'cause Liz is on the leading edge of all that stuff.

But but, you know, it, it's, it's pretty compelling. I mean, you know, I guess the scary thing is are you doing other things that we're just not quite aware of

yet? Right. You know but you look at like, you look at the results of some of these people, it's pretty impressive

with the false end it's, but you know, right now it's 25, 000 and it lasts about a year and a half and then you got to do it again. And again, I just am not a hundred percent certain that there's not things we're doing when we're screening up at that gene level. Are we doing anything that we're just don't have quite a handle on?

Stephen McCain: Yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm a little, uh, you know, like the, there's the telomerase one Liz Paris does. I mean,

Dr Yurth: Let's perish. Right. Yeah.

Stephen McCain: yeah, my first podcast guest, Paul Tozer, like a friend of mine, he did fall statin, the, the, the telomerase and, and I mean, I was, yeah, I was like Jesus, you know, 

Dr Yurth: And does he, does he feel great?

Stephen McCain: I mean, yeah, he's, he's a, he was a hard charging guy who worked in, uh, uh, like video game development.

So he, he basically tested his, he basically said his telomeres were like gone. And so it was a little bit of an emergence, you know, and he's shown whether or not these look, that also brings into question, 

Dr Yurth: Right. This question, are these tests right? Or how good are these tests? Right.

Stephen McCain: Yeah.

Dr Yurth: could talk all day about that one

Stephen McCain: Yeah. Cause they're, they're, they're measuring the average and it's really about which ones 

Dr Yurth: Right. That one. 

Stephen McCain: You have these modalities that people are doing like the fall of statin and the plasma exchange and they, 

Dr Yurth: Right. Young plastic change. Yeah. 

Stephen McCain: you know, and, and I, I'm a big, I like exosomes. I mean, maybe that was the last thing, if we could have one little final, uh, uh, you know, get your opinion on exosomes.

Cause I know you guys had exosomes at world pep at Congress as one of the booths and stuff, so I, you guys always recommend the vendors that are there. What are your opinions on, what is your opinion on exosomes?

Dr Yurth: we look at, you know, we, we, I think nobody would deny that stem cell therapy has significant benefits to our health. And I saw you had, you know I can't remember his name, but the stem regem guy, you know, he and I had this big talk about

stem cells a little bit. Yeah. It was, it was brilliant and you know, and I love his product.

And it certainly has some good outcomes, but you know, one of the things I said to him, I said, well, there's a lot of data supporting that our own stem cells as we age may not be, we used to think, oh, stem cells don't age. I said, there's some data to support that actually is not true. You know, some of the Chinese data that's coming out, it shows that stem cells, Aged stem cells.

Stephen McCain: oh,

Dr Yurth: Are you there Disappeared for a minute. Okay. Aged

stem cells actually did have senescent phenotypes and that they actually did do some damage down the road. You know, I had a discussion about that. I don't know if we figured it out, but but if you think about the, probably the best stem cell sources, it still is probably taking young stem cells.

So taking umbilical stem cells, the problem is

umbilical stem cells contain data you probably don't always want, right? They contain information, even DNA information that you probably don't want. So what exosomes are, is they're little. nanoparticles contained inside stem cells that contain all the micro RNAs and growth factors to regenerate, right?

So if I can take instead of stem cells, I can take all the guts of the stem cells that have the really good things that I want, the mRNAs, the growth factors that are going to use my own system to, to design a new skin or new hair or whatever. In my mind, that's the safest and best way of regenerating tissue,

right?

It's to use umbilical stem cell derived Exosomes. And now I can also take, like, let's say if I can fit, you know, a hundred, obviously a very small number, but a hundred stem cells, and each of those contains a thousand exosomes. What if I take, you know, now just exosomes, I can give somebody a whole lot more 15 trillion exosomes, as opposed to maybe not that kind of volume if I can give them stem cells, So you know, So I think that You can get better volume.

I think you can get better outcomes. I think the data is certainly trending towards some of the new data that's coming out on exosomes showing some really amazing things in terms of regenerating, even in the face of spinal cord injuries, things like that. I think we have a ways to go on understanding everything about it, but in my mind, everything I know, and, and even in my results in my own clinic, I, I still think they have the most regenerative potential.

I do think you want good sources. I think you, you know, I

don't know if we know, Enough to say, Okay. this is the perfect place to use them. But the data is awfully compelling. And I think that, that, that, you know, my belief is they probably have the most regenerative potential of anything that we have in our armatarium.

Stephen McCain: Yeah, I, I, I'm leaning in that and I've been experimenting with them this year was like the year of exosomes for me and tried to amniotic and placental and, and I've used the placental derived ones, uh, for pretty consistently this year and I'm a huge advocate of it, even doing it at a lower pulse, but more kind of frequently to kind of.

You know but, uh, it's always refreshing to get your opinion on it because it just keeps what you're saying is echoing exactly how I think about it. And man, we covered, we covered some good stuff on this one. Yeah, we covered some good stuff. I feel like we did it justice having you on, you know 

it is always Delight to to just have a few moments with you. And this was we got to I got to indulge so Yeah, I would love to offline I would love to talk to you about the pentacin polysulfate. Maybe coming on as one of your guys clients or something like that, because I just feel like 

Dr Yurth: Yeah, for you, probably with all the stuff. And, you know, if you had knee scopes, I would tell you probably not a bad thing to actually maybe do at least a course of now and then,

Stephen McCain: Yeah. Yeah. I would, I would love to work with you on that. And, uh, I, I really appreciate it. How can people find what's the best way for them to find you, reach out to you, if they want to work 

Dr Yurth: So, BoulderLongevity. com is our clinic. We see patients from all over the world, licensed 46. And we see people all over the place. The world, mostly virtual people who want to come here for procedures or through procedures and things. Obviously they have to fly here for doing those things. We're doing more regenerative procedures, but otherwise we, we just work virtually with most of our clients.

So border longevity. com, you can just sort of fill in and want more information piece there and somebody will contact you or you can set up an appointment online. Those of you guys who want to learn more, you know, I love, like, Stephen doing all this education on this stuff. So we've actually tried to set up this thing called Human Optimization Academy. So if you go to bli. academy, you can sign up there. We actually have some free content and then there's some, if you can join the academy, really cool stuff. So we put together courses there to try and teach people. How do you read your own labs? How do you understand, you know, the stuff your doctor doesn't tell you?

How do you understand that? And we try and teach from a, what doctors should be. Learning not, you know, not, and they don't. So we're trying to teach you that way as opposed to trying to get all your information from your Instagram influencers

who we have to remember are sometimes trying to sell you things.

And so we're trying to keep it, you know, it's all, you know, nothing that we do is to promote a product. It's all really just educational. We also do these really fun Q and A's. They're kind of like this. People ask really cool questions and we just rap about it, you know? So it's, so those are really fun every month.

So if you go to bli. academy, you can look at the academy, and we love that, and it's growing the content on that. Again, there's courses on, you know, how do you fix things first, where do you go how do I look at my CBC and know what is, whether it's abnormal or not, or my, my cardiac panel, uh, or my hormones.

So we help you to learn how to read your own labs, because you guys can't rely, as Stephen said, you just can't rely on your traditional doctor

to do this stuff, you just can't. You're gonna have to become your own health advocate. So we're trying to help you to do that, you know. Cause good, even good functional medicine doctors aren't all that easy to find, honestly.

So you, you, you at least be your own advocate, find a doctor who you can work with and talk to, you know when you become a smartest, even then you just, you know, you, you kind of dictate your own care a little bit, but you want to find a doctor who can help you along that road. When you want a prescription, they can, they can say, okay, that's a good idea.

Or I don't. So that's what you want to find somebody who just works as a team with you And we want to educate you to be able to do that. So photo longevity. com or bli. academy and and you should go get everything you need.

Stephen McCain: Yes, and I will put links to all of that in the show notes. You can find those at stephenmccain. com backslash yurth, Y U R T H anyone who's listening to this, I hope you see that there's a caliber of doctor out there that is on the cutting edge.

And when it comes to your health, I mean, that, that's, you know, that's where we want to be. That's why I started this podcast for crying out loud. 

Dr Yurth: Yeah, that's how people can

Stephen McCain: Thank you so much for coming and thank you everyone for 

Dr Yurth: you, I appreciate the time, and I always appreciate talking to you.

Stephen McCain: Thanks for listening. We'll see you on the next episode of the Stephen McCain podcast. Stay healthy. Cheers.